TN: JBL visit (March 6, 2011)
- Thread starter Jeff Grossman
- Start date
Bill Lundstrom
Bill Lundstrom
you could throw oddero normale into that mix too.
Jay Miller
Jay Miller
They were, alas, just visiting.
You could certainly have a dinner thrown for you. For one like that the stars have to align a bit. Which they might do. You can never tell with stars these day.
Jay Miller
Jay Miller
Though in his defense, since it was opened after I left that must mean it came after all the desserts. I even found the Prevost lean after all the desserts but you know how much I loved it on Tuesday.
Aged gruner is one of the world's great wines (and I owe Joe for demonstrating that to me) but the 2001 Vinothekfullung is a bit heavy for me. Maybe it's just too young. Or maybe it's just too heavy.
Lou Kessler
Lou Kessler
I second everything good you've said about Mt Eden chards, to know them is to love them. Can't speak for that particular bottle they drank in the post. one of the few CA chards I try each year and buy accordingly. I will say my chards are basically burgs with few exceptions and Mt Eden is one of them.
Jay Miller
Jay Miller
I've only been drinking and buying them for a few years but this is the first (and only) bottle I've had that I've disliked. It definitely tasted like an overoaked CA chardonnay. And that was weird and unexpected.
U
Unknown
Guest
We meant no disrespect, Godfather.
Lou Kessler
Lou Kessler
We'll be there in the fall as usual. May sure the slate is clean and Godfather has cleared your name. I would want to know if it would be safe to be in the same room as you? I would not like my demise to be collateral damage.
Eden Mylunsch
Eden Mylunsch
Sorry to hear about the corked bottle of 1978 Sunrise. That wine came out of nowhere to wine a gold medal (or maybe sweepstakes trophy) at the LA County Fair wine competition, back when that meant something. I snagged a couple of bottles and I recall them as being quite good.
I haven't tasted the 2002 Mount Eden Chardonnay for a long time but a 2001 from magnum a few months ago was divine. It was right around that time that they moved to using more Sirugue barrels in their elevage and the Chardonnays have seemed more nuanced since then than they were with whatever cooper they used before.
No problem at all. It's not like I invented this punctuation stuff.
-Eden (although I'll admit to improvising on it from time to time)
I haven't tasted the 2002 Mount Eden Chardonnay for a long time but a 2001 from magnum a few months ago was divine. It was right around that time that they moved to using more Sirugue barrels in their elevage and the Chardonnays have seemed more nuanced since then than they were with whatever cooper they used before.
No problem at all. It's not like I invented this punctuation stuff.
-Eden (although I'll admit to improvising on it from time to time)
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
I meant to ask: On the Haag labels, in amongst the words that name the wine, there is a "1" followed by an iconic grape bunch (six gold dots, arranged as an inverted pyramid). What does that signify?
Cristian Dezso
Cristian Dezso
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
Erste Lage vineyard. Explanation.
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
Thank you both, Cristian and Claude. That was it.
Following Claude's link, I now have another question: Under the "Style" section it says:
"Dry wines from a top site (Erste Lage) are designated Grosses Gewächs. Fruity wines with natural sweetness are denoted by the traditional Prädikats from Spätlese to Trockenbeerenauslese."
Is that meant to exclude Kabinett or do I not understand how the Germans list things (i.e., not in value order (which sounds very un-Germanic to me))?
Following Claude's link, I now have another question: Under the "Style" section it says:
"Dry wines from a top site (Erste Lage) are designated Grosses Gewächs. Fruity wines with natural sweetness are denoted by the traditional Prädikats from Spätlese to Trockenbeerenauslese."
Is that meant to exclude Kabinett or do I not understand how the Germans list things (i.e., not in value order (which sounds very un-Germanic to me))?
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
The VDP wants to suppress use of individual vineyards for Kabinett wines, especially for Erste Lage sites. Some producers are following this approach, but others are ignoring it.
The state of German wine labelling these days can best be described as anarchy and madness. A few examples:
Although most producers put the name of the village followed by the vineyard, some reverse this order. You'd recognize that for famous vineyards, such as Wehlener Sonnenuhr, but very few people know vineyards and wine towns well enough not to be misled at least a good portion of the time.
Also, for Erste Lage sites, many producers just list the name of the vineyard, supposedly adopting the Burgundy model. But there's only a single vineyard for each Burgundy grand cru; there are two different Erste Lagen in the Nahe alone that bear the name Felseneck. And for Kirchenstück, to choose one example, there are Erste Lagen with that name in the Rheingau, Pfalz, and Rheinhessen, and various other vineyards with that name throughout Germany.
The state of German wine labelling these days can best be described as anarchy and madness. A few examples:
Although most producers put the name of the village followed by the vineyard, some reverse this order. You'd recognize that for famous vineyards, such as Wehlener Sonnenuhr, but very few people know vineyards and wine towns well enough not to be misled at least a good portion of the time.
Also, for Erste Lage sites, many producers just list the name of the vineyard, supposedly adopting the Burgundy model. But there's only a single vineyard for each Burgundy grand cru; there are two different Erste Lagen in the Nahe alone that bear the name Felseneck. And for Kirchenstück, to choose one example, there are Erste Lagen with that name in the Rheingau, Pfalz, and Rheinhessen, and various other vineyards with that name throughout Germany.
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
Are they trying to not-so-subtly hint that Kabinett is sufficiently dry that such wine should move from the "fruity" to "dry" wine designations?
Or just that Kabinett can't reflect the terroir because it's neither dry enough nor sweet enough to do the job?
(My head hurts trying to imagine what's wrong with just one of the Pradikats.)
Or just that Kabinett can't reflect the terroir because it's neither dry enough nor sweet enough to do the job?
(My head hurts trying to imagine what's wrong with just one of the Pradikats.)
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
Thanks to global warming, most Kabinetts are sweeter than ever; in some vintages, many are technically Auslesen.
The problem seems to be that some people don't want to recognize Kabinett as a serious wine. This may be related to the fact that many/most Germans who drink wine believe that German wine has to be either dry or Auslese or above (i.e., dessert wine); so they're making a stretch even to allow Spätlese in (and at one point, the stupid VDP rules did not allow a fruity-style Spätlese to be labelled from an Erste Lage vineyard if there was a GG from that vineyard in the same vintage).
The problem seems to be that some people don't want to recognize Kabinett as a serious wine. This may be related to the fact that many/most Germans who drink wine believe that German wine has to be either dry or Auslese or above (i.e., dessert wine); so they're making a stretch even to allow Spätlese in (and at one point, the stupid VDP rules did not allow a fruity-style Spätlese to be labelled from an Erste Lage vineyard if there was a GG from that vineyard in the same vintage).
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
Ah, so it's wine politics, not the wine, that is leading the discussion.
Whew. I was afraid, for just a moment, that it was going to make some sense.
Thank you for the clarification, Claude.
Whew. I was afraid, for just a moment, that it was going to make some sense.
Thank you for the clarification, Claude.
Jay Miller
Jay Miller
Ow. Banging my head against the wall hurts. But sometimes it seems like the only rational response.
Lou Kessler
Lou Kessler
The majority of customers in our store have been turned off by German labeling for years and this just adds to their negative opinions.
I'm sure if the labels were easier to read we would sell more German wines and the prices would go up. I guess something positive in their bad marketing can be seen for the fan in this approach.
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
Sounds disorderly.
Funny, though; I've been drinking German wines longer than any other and the more I drink, the more I prefer Kabinetts.