NV Tissot Crémant du Jura

originally posted by Brézème:
I can't really think of a greater Chateau Chalon than Macle's. Or of a much greater white wine in fact.
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Not Henri Maire?

More seriously, you make me want to taste the lineup again. Last time, I was not impressed. The older ones, yes. But maybe I need to try newer ones again.

In any case, when Ch“teau-Chalon is on...
 
originally posted by Brézème:
I really love Ganevat's whites, but they taste fucking modern to me.
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Really?

Like, Tissot modern?

Also, in this sense, what is modern? Is Clairet modern?

In the best way of course. Like Dönnhoff or even Roulot taste, sort of.
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Roulot? Who is non-modern Meursault, then? Is it because you find the wines "clean"?

Please, details.
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
originally posted by Brézème:
I really love Ganevat's whites, but they taste fucking modern to me.
Click to expand...

Really?

Like, Tissot modern?

Also, in this sense, what is modern? Is Clairet modern?

In the best way of course. Like Dönnhoff or even Roulot taste, sort of.
Click to expand...

Roulot? Who is non-modern Meursault, then? Is it because you find the wines "clean"?

Please, details.
Click to expand...

Modern in the sense of obviously MADE with a precise idea of what the result should be. The opposite of Houillon in a sense.

Tons of so-so traditional meursault are not modern. Bouzereau Gruères used to be like this : 5 years in a raw totally disappointing and suddenly totally magical like his '90s. Pure expression of Meursault terroirs so focused that you could feel the differences of the breeze in genevrières and poruzots only by tasting the wines... I hardly get this feeling from Roulot. Roulot is formal perfection to the detriment of a bit of wilderness. Perfect for some specific times.
Kind of "trop sage" for some others.

I already hear the cool kids whispering : Mikulski, Mikulski... (or Pacalet maybe?)
Well they don't do it for me, as a drinker.
I don't see any Houillon in Meursault these days.

So yes, Ganevat, as whites are concerned, is more a kind of Roulot from jura for my taste.
 
Interesting. That is precisely what I'd thought, re: Roulot. But not "made" in a kind of trafficked way. Come on. I find those wines lacking in "wildness," but with beauty and precision. (Not oak and grossness, or just lacking in any appeal like the much-appreciated Jobards.)

I think there should be two "moderns," then—spoofy, fake modern, and perhaps precise modern?

I don't know. I think Roulot's wines are beautiful.

I like Ganevat's wines enormously.

I hear you about Mikulski. I had an 04 Volnay Santenots du Milieu from him last week and it was really fine. I've liked his whites, as well.

But Pacalet?? As much as I love the guy's wines, his practice is a gigantic tic.
 
I had a bunch of Ganevat last night and was pretty well pleased. Some of the chardonnays could make me think Eric was on to something, but I wouldn't have had any criticism for wines like '99 Vignes de mon Pere. Eric, would you include that sort of thing in your thinking?
 
i had very mixed experiences with Ganevat's wines. Most chardonnays tasted from barrels were good, some great, the "vignes de mon pere" was most definitely a great wine, but the bottles i've tasted in the states (recently) were not so good, like that bottle of "chalasses" shared with fb that smelled like shit at opening and never really changed. And i'm sorry to say i find the reds awful, all of them. Someone was telling me Ganevat doesn't think the wines are traveling well, might just be that...
 
originally posted by Guilhaume gerard:
And i'm sorry to say i find the reds awful, all of them. Someone was telling me Ganevat doesn't think the wines are traveling well, might just be that...
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Some of them showed very well last night. Maybe it's an east coast/west coast thing with low-SO2 wines. I've certainly seen that happen before.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
I had a bunch of Ganevat last night and was pretty well pleased. Some of the chardonnays could make me think Eric was on to something, but I wouldn't have had any criticism for wines like '99 Vignes de mon Pere. Eric, would you include that sort of thing in your thinking?
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Joe,

Les Vignes de mon Père is something apart.
I was thinking of the other "plain" chardonnay bottlings and the Savagnin ouillés.

Sharon,

Modern is not a dirty word in my mouth.

Clape or Allemand are modern for me. Verset, Michel or Juge are not.
Destemming is a modern act in my book. Use of barrels too. BTW I wouldn't bet Roulot doesn't innoculate... Doesn't mean the wines are crap. Far from this, in fact.

I would say that my Chateauneuf blanc is a modern wine. Even though not innoculated, no sulfur,... But I really make this wine the way it is. Choice of grapes varieties, unusual early picking, malos, hyperoxygenation and extended ageing on lees. No old school local grower would do that on purpose. So modern in that sense.
 
Modern is perhaps not the right word to use, but I think Eric is right when he says that Ganevat seems to have a very clear aim in mind for the wines. From barrel it's clear what he wants from the Grandes Teppes V.V. as opposed to any of the young vines cuvees. Even his MacVin tastes that way. The freakshow 2004 Chamois du Paradis, probably my favourite wine of the line-up, is more Chardonnay than Rotalier.

In another region, to use Eric's example, Vincent Paris (in Geynale) and Guillaume Gilles (in Chaillots) are making very different Cornas from the same ground which Robert Michel did.

Or to quote one familiar example, Lapierre is modern. But like all labels, all shorthand, modern in this context is just that.
 
Totally with you on Tissot and modernity. But the bubbles and the sans souffre, I like. The bubbles are fine. But.....I'd take Bornard's or Montbourgeau over Tissot in a flash. But Tissot, nice work. Are you sure you weren't just in a good mood?
 
originally posted by Brézème:
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
originally posted by Brézème:
I really love Ganevat's whites, but they taste fucking modern to me.
Click to expand...

Really?

Like, Tissot modern?

Also, in this sense, what is modern? Is Clairet modern?

In the best way of course. Like Dönnhoff or even Roulot taste, sort of.
Click to expand...

Roulot? Who is non-modern Meursault, then? Is it because you find the wines "clean"?

Please, details.
Click to expand...

Modern in the sense of obviously MADE with a precise idea of what the result should be. The opposite of Houillon in a sense.

Tons of so-so traditional meursault are not modern. Bouzereau Gruères used to be like this : 5 years in a raw totally disappointing and suddenly totally magical like his '90s. Pure expression of Meursault terroirs so focused that you could feel the differences of the breeze in genevrières and poruzots only by tasting the wines... I hardly get this feeling from Roulot. Roulot is formal perfection to the detriment of a bit of wilderness. Perfect for some specific times.
Kind of "trop sage" for some others.

I already hear the cool kids whispering : Mikulski, Mikulski... (or Pacalet maybe?)
Well they don't do it for me, as a drinker.
I don't see any Houillon in Meursault these days.

So yes, Ganevat, as whites are concerned, is more a kind of Roulot from jura for my taste.
Click to expand...

This is just an awesome post.

And modern isn't a dirty word to me, either.

I don't get the fuss about Ganevat, especially the reds. But I've only had maybe 10 bottles total.
 
I get the fuss about Ganevat.

If you are criticizing the Ganevat reds, are you criticizing the J'en Veux? Because if you were, I would definitely have to part company with you on that. Also, I liked the Trousseau I tried recently.
 
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