TN: Dinner in NYC with Marshall and Diana Gelb.

originally posted by Yixin:
originally posted by .sasha:
originally posted by Keith Levenberg:
I prefer the taste of oak to the taste of grenache.
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Have a Cairanne. My bill is in the mail.
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I'll raise you a Rasteau. With extra alcohol. My bill is also in the mail.
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Are you going to throw in a little Mourvèdre as well ?
 
1) I like ESJ a lot. They are more reminiscent of Northern Rhone than Southern to me even when the blend is more Southern Rhone as in Rocks and Gravel.

2)If Mark's tastes run to Pegau, Beaucastel and Vieux Telegraphe, Rayas might not fit his bill. Although people talk about CdP as if it were monolithic, there is a clear divide between the style that runs to animale and dark fruit and the more raspberry floral side one finds in high content grenache from the northern part of the appellation. I don't drink much Rayas because of the price, either, but Charvin, Marcoux, Bois de Boursan and Ferrand are in that stylistic vein.

3)CdP has been ravaged by Cambie and a general tendency to think the more extraction the better. It's been less ravaged by oak, which ruins more Gigondases than CdPs. With a little knowledge, you can still find traditionally made ones.

4)Global warming has changed the wine since maybe 2000. But I can't imagine it hasn't changed other regions and not merely Bordeaux as well.
 
Yixin,
My few tastes of Rayas have been uniformly positive (nearly true for Pignan and Fonsalette, too) but the pricetag and availability are barriers for me. Prof, you are most likely right that I am drawn to the animale side of the wines, but I do appreciate Charvin, Marcoux and Rayas, too. The problem with all 3 for me is that of availability in my market -- and I never seem to include CdPs when I pull the trigger at CSW. To me, Charvin especially is like the Allemand of the region: more polished and genteel than is the norm. Bois de Boursan I do get here, but I find that it's less a vin de garde than the others we've spoken of.

Mark Lipton
 
Is it a secret that Louis/Dressner imports Boursan?

FWIW, the 01 Boursan (basic level bottle) we drank last year was the last out of a batch of several, at age 9 much the best, and still outside the environs of tired.
 
Someone spoke of Mourvedre...which I tend to like a lot.

I had a Peter Franus Branolin Vyd Mt Veeder Mourvedre '05 the other night that was tasty. I've tried to buy some of this bottling but it seems to not be available in any vintages (at least, I couldn't find any).

. . . . . . Pete
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by Mark Davis:
originally posted by Florida Jim:
originally posted by Brad Kane:
Of course Jay can count the number of CDP's he's liked on one hand and probably have a finger or two left over.
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He's not alone.
Best, Jim
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I thought that was required to post on this board?
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Oh, you've been listening to VS too much about the alleged monolithic taste around here. A small amount of reading would disabuse you.

I've had good Chateauneuf. I've had great Chateauneuf.

I've not had too much of it lately, but I object in strong terms to the notion that there is a palate visa that must be stamped to post here.
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Yep.
Best, Jim
 
originally posted by Florida Jim:
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by Mark Davis:
originally posted by Florida Jim:
originally posted by Brad Kane:
Of course Jay can count the number of CDP's he's liked on one hand and probably have a finger or two left over.
Click to expand...
He's not alone.
Best, Jim
Click to expand...

I thought that was required to post on this board?
Click to expand...
Oh, you've been listening to VS too much about the alleged monolithic taste around here. A small amount of reading would disabuse you.

I've had good Chateauneuf. I've had great Chateauneuf.

I've not had too much of it lately, but I object in strong terms to the notion that there is a palate visa that must be stamped to post here.
Click to expand...
Yep.
Best, Jim
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The politburo should ban all discussion of over-priced wines though regardless of drinking appeal. Starting with all talk of vintages of Huet from before SFJoe was born.
 
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