Old-style Rioja help needed

Saina Nieminen

Saina Nieminen
I suddenly feel like drinking some old-style Rioja, but I don't know Rioja very well at all. Are any of these good and old-style? Any to avoid? Are the prices, as usual in Finland, absurdly high?

Baron de Ley Reserva 1994 49,00
Conde Valdemar Crianza 1994 33,00
Marques de Riscal 1995 51,00
Monte Real B. Riojanas Gran Reserva 1987 38,00
Muga Reserva 1994 60,00
Royal Franco Españolas Cria. 1966 32,00
Viña Arana Reserva 1982 49,00
Faustino I Gran Reserva 1994 59,00
Cune Reserva 1995 51,00
Muga Reserva 2001 60,00
 
I like 87 riojanas - more on the red fruity side, quite traditional ( as opposed to darker, less spicy, more plummy 89 ), will probably develop in the glass nicely over an hour
 
Faustino I Gran Reserva 1994 is very good wine, but 59,00 (Euros I suppose) seem ridiculous, I remember buying it in overpriced Norway for slightly under 20 reasonably freshly released. Not a wine to triple in price in less than a decade.
 
originally posted by .sasha:
I like 87 riojanas - more on the red fruity side, quite traditional ( as opposed to darker, less spicy, more plummy 89 ), will probably develop in the glass nicely over an hour

I'm with .sasha. The Riojanas should be really good and is certainly the best value there. Second choice would be the '82 La Rioja Alta Vina Arana.
 
Thanks for the replies. Unfortunately even at these prices they sold out except for the Royal Franco '66. Any chance that might be good?
 
These prices were incomprehensible to me. Even taking account of Scandinavian taxes.

Let me take advantage of the opportunity, though, to throw out some names that I never see on this bored, where one gets the impression that only 5-6 bodegas are still making classic Rioja, i.e. not overextracted, not overoaked, not newoaked, more tertiary than just primary fruit. If you can find them (are they even imported into the US?), you'll probably enjoy the styles:

Reds: Exeo Cifras 2008, Valserrano Gran Reserva 2004, Señorío de P. Peciña Crianza 2006, Valserrano Finca Monteviejo 2006, Telmo Rodríguez Altos de Lanzaga 2006, Beronia Gran Reserva 2001, Finca La Emperatriz Reserva 2005, CVNE Imperial Reserva 2005.

Whites: Valserrano Blanco Gran Reserva 2000, Valenciso FB 2008, Valserrano Blanco FB 2008.
 
originally posted by VS:
These prices were incomprehensible to me. Even taking account of Scandinavian taxes.

Let me take advantage of the opportunity, though, to throw out some names that I never see on this bored, where one gets the impression that only 5-6 bodegas are still making classic Rioja, i.e. not overextracted, not overoaked, not newoaked, more tertiary than just primary fruit. If you can find them (are they even imported into the US?), you'll probably enjoy the styles:

Reds: Exeo Cifras 2008, Valserrano Gran Reserva 2004, Señorío de P. Peciña Crianza 2006, Valserrano Finca Monteviejo 2006, Telmo Rodríguez Altos de Lanzaga 2006, Beronia Gran Reserva 2001, Finca La Emperatriz Reserva 2005, CVNE Imperial Reserva 2005.

Whites: Valserrano Blanco Gran Reserva 2000, Valenciso FB 2008, Valserrano Blanco FB 2008.

What is your take on Remelluri?

I was impressed by the place on a recent visit. I liked the wine well enough as well. I also enjoyed Conde De Hervias and Mencos in a slightly different idiom.

I've had some very good Pecina wines.

Oh, and I had absolutely terrible Heredia and Rioja Alta wines. Fuck traditional Rioja. Some terrible Contino as well.
 
Hi Victor,
The Beronia is available here through the Spanish Table.
I do see the Senorio de P. Pecina, Telmo Rodriguez and the CVNE wines also.
Any opinions on the '78 and '87 Beronia Gran Reserva?
 
originally posted by VS:

Reds: Exeo Cifras 2008

Only the Exeo Letras 2006, through La Tienda, no less!

Valserrano Gran Reserva 2004

Only the '99 and '03 available on these shores

Señorío de P. Peciña Crianza 2006

Again, the latest to find its way here was the '03, I think

Valserrano Finca Monteviejo 2006

Care for the '03 or '05? That's what I can turn up

Telmo Rodríguez Altos de Lanzaga 2006

'05 is the latest to make its way here, but the '01 and '04 are still available!

Beronia Gran Reserva 2001

Woot! Selling for a miserly $22 at PJ's right now! How's the '06? That's for sale, too.

Finca La Emperatriz Reserva 2005

Only the '04 for sale right now, for an incredible $20.

CVNE Imperial Reserva 2005.

Nothing later than the '04 shows up right now, though as you might expect there is a fairly extensive back catalog from this producer available here.

Whites: Valserrano Blanco Gran Reserva 2000

Nope.

Valenciso FB 2008

Uh-uh

Valserrano Blanco FB 2008.

Again, no.

So, what you can see is that the reds are all imported, but we're lagging behind in vintages, probably because of sluggish sales the past few years and maybe the "Dr. Big Jay Miller" effect, doing for Spain the great things he's done for Australia. Of course, another problem is finding any of these outside of the big markets, but that's a cross that we in flyover country have learned to bear.

Thanks for the names!
Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by VLM:

Oh, and I had absolutely terrible Heredia and Rioja Alta wines. Fuck traditional Rioja. Some terrible Contino as well.

I believe Contino had a TCA problem in the 1980's that affected several vintages. Victor probably knows the exact details. Not sure what you sampled, of course.
 
originally posted by VLM:
What is your take on Remelluri?

I'm curious to hear more too. I thought the Reserva was quite nice (this is from a few yrs back, so I forget the vintage)...solid, upright, good balance, more earth than fruit. The blanco, on the other hand (which I had a day or two prior to the Reserva) was like a psychotropic experience. I was shocked that the two were made by the same people.
 
Don't be surprised not to find these vintages in the US yet - they've only been released recently in Spain. And indeed the market is sluggish. OTOH, traditional Riojas are rarely very expensive.

Answering questions:

* Telmo Rodríguez has recently (2010) re-assumed the running of the family estate, Remelluri, in addition to his other estates (in Rioja, Lanzaga), after patching up his long-running feud with his father. He'd left back in 1998. Contrary to what Mr. Nossiter has written (sorry to disappoint you, Mr. Nossiter), Telmo is a thousand miles from being a Parker creature, and farther away every year. He'll do well, as his Altos de Lanzaga 06 would indicate. The latest pre-Telmo wines released have been the opposite of your description, Joel: the 2006 red is just too lean and unripe (it was a difficult vintage, and the estate is higher and colder than most others in Rioja), whereas the 2007 white is the best I've tasted to date. No longer a fruit cocktail, it's now mineral, precise and tension-packed. You can feel that the vines are now older, and also that the winemakers aren't looking for overripeness any longer. I would have included it in my list of classic whites were it not for its unorthodox blend (which includes garnacha blanca, muscat blanc à petits grains, chardonnay, roussanne, marsanne, sauvignon blanc, petit manseng and petit courbu). But it's very, very Rioja actually: it's the limestone soil that comes through this array of little bits of everything.

* Contino's TCA problem ruined its 1989, 1990 and 1991 vintages. Its first fine vintage after that was 1994. This was never considered a classic Rioja producer; indeed it was, with Marqués de Cáceres, one of the first 'modern style' producers (newer oak, all of it French, less time in barrel, more concentration in a more fruit-forward wine). But it has also confirmed what some of us always thought: the winemaking, and the style of a Rioja in its first few years of life, are not the most important things if it comes from a fine terroir, as the initially quite different wines will converge as they evolve in bottle. Indeed, a 1978 or 1980 Contino is not only wonderful now, but it's just as 'traditional Rioja' in its lightness and tertiary complexity as a López de Heredia or La Rioja Alta of the same age.

* I'm not crazy about Beronia, a large winery which makes rather formulaic wines, but at the Gran Reserva level they can be truly excellent, and always quite traditional. The 2001 is the best GR from that winery I've tasted in a long time. My list of current producers of traditional Rioja of reliable (sometimes outstanding) quality, usually at Reserva and Gran Reserva levels but in some cases Crianza as well, includes: López de Heredia-Viña Tondonia, La Rioja Alta, CVNE (Reserva and up), Amézola de la Mora, Bretón, Beronia, Exeo, Hermanos Peciña, Valenciso, Finca La Emperatriz, Bodegas y Viñedos de la Marquesa (Valserrano), Lanzaga. Muga, which is in sensational shape right now (great 2004 Prado Enea, back to its roots), may be the only winery excelling both in the modern and the traditional styles, depending on its cuvées.
 
I thought there was quite a differnece in style at CVNE, between Imperial and V Real these days, but I have not followed too closely (?)
 
originally posted by VS:
* Telmo Rodríguez has recently (2010) re-assumed the running of the family estate, Remelluri, in addition to his other estates (in Rioja, Lanzaga), after patching up his long-running feud with his father. He'd left back in 1998. Contrary to what Mr. Nossiter has written (sorry to disappoint you, Mr. Nossiter), Telmo is a thousand miles from being a Parker creature, and farther away every year. He'll do well, as his Altos de Lanzaga 06 would indicate. The latest pre-Telmo wines released have been the opposite of your description, Joel: the 2006 red is just too lean and unripe (it was a difficult vintage, and the estate is higher and colder than most others in Rioja), whereas the 2007 white is the best I've tasted to date. No longer a fruit cocktail, it's now mineral, precise and tension-packed. You can feel that the vines are now older, and also that the winemakers aren't looking for overripeness any longer. I would have included it in my list of classic whites were it not for its unorthodox blend (which includes garnacha blanca, muscat blanc à petits grains, chardonnay, roussanne, marsanne, sauvignon blanc, petit manseng and petit courbu). But it's very, very Rioja actually: it's the limestone soil that comes through this array of little bits of everything.

Telmo was away when we visited, but his sister was there and she is something, indeed. Not a shrinking violet, that one.

I was really impressed with what I saw in the vineyards, almost Loire farming to make wine on a Bordeaux scale. I didn't find the wines too lean, I guess I wouldn't, and the white really is as Victor is describing it. I can't say enough about how they are farming compared to what you see in general. Also, it is a remarkably beautiful place, full of history.

Victor, you didn't comment on the Conde De Hervias and Mencos. Any opinions? The Conde De Hervias vines are franc de pied, or whatever you call it in Spanish.
 
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