So, what did you learn with Clive?

Well, I have to be honest and say that I if talk too much about the wines involved, that I suspect people will start to hate me a bit. It is perhaps better to keep quiet.

But, well, here is some of what we sampled:

Domaine Ramonet Bienvenue-Batard-Montrachet
05, 02, 00, 98, 90, 86

Domaine Ramonet Batard-Montrachet
71, 83, 90, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 99, 00, 01, 02, 04, 05

Domaine Ramonet Montrachet
83, 85, 87, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 01, 02, 04, 05

There were standouts amongst the above both young and old, there were impressive wines, there were wines that were tremendous with the food, and there were some oxidized bottles. So pretty much what you would think. Some of the real nice moments for me were shared with the 83 Montrachet, the 93 Montrachet, the 83 and 93 Batard, the 71 Batard, the 05 Batard, as well as the 00 and 02 Bienvenue.

There was also a 2000 Red Grand Cru tasting of 39 wines. Some of my favorites were Henri Jayer Echezeaux, Rene Engel Clos-Vougeot, Domaine Leroy Clos-Vougeot, Comte Georges de Vogue Musigny, DRC La Tache, G. Roumier Bonnes-Mares, Dominique Laurent Mazis-Chambertin (I admit it), and Armand Rousseau Chambertin. So again, not too many big reveals in there. Mostly as one might expect. Perhaps it was interesting how little I cared for the particular bottle of de Vogue Bonnes-Mares next to the Musigny from the same producer which I did like.

All in all, I thought that 2000 was not one of those big discovery years, where you go back later and realize that you were wrong in the beginning and it is actually just tremendous. Rather the opposite, in fact. The majority of the wines were unfocused, and when they went wrong, they went really wrong. Particularly terrible were a Delarche Le Corton and a Daniel Bocquenet Echezeaux, but there were wines to pass on from Frederic Magnien, Domaine Arlaud, Denis Mortet, and others as well.

Some of the other notables from the weekend were, as I can remember them:

1997 Fattoria Le Pupille Morellino di Scansano Riserva (a nice drink, in a nice place)

1989 Cheval Blanc (not the heights that I had hoped for, but certainly typical and good)

1989 Pichon-Lalande (a bit plump, otherwise typical and quite good)

1972 Domaine Ramonet "Clos de la Boudriotte" Chassagne-Montrachet Rouge (really wonderful to try this. What I like about red Burgundy. Very classic)

1976 Maison Leroy "Les Peuillets" Savigny-les-Beaune (just lovely, I really loved the sniffs we shared together)

1983 Chateau Rayas "Reserve" CNDP Rouge (showing great, a little light for this wine, but totally in the right way, a treat)

1995 Louis Jadot Corton-Charlemagne (nicely mature)

2004 Coche-Cury Meursault Les Rougeots (everything that is nice about 2004 and about Coche, without any of the other stuff)

1998 Montevertine "Le Pergole Torte" (yep, that's the stuff)

2005 Dagueneau Boisson-Renard PF (a bit candied after it warms up to room temperature, but nice beforehand with a bit of a chill, it was nice to see this with a little bit more age on it than I have in the past)

1998 A. Clape Cornas (firmer than a 1997 that I had recently, a nice counterpoint to that experience)

1988 Climens Sauternes (maybe a little simple on it's own, but really perfect with strawberrys)

1985 Drouhin "Marquis de Laguiche" Montrachet (drink, don't hold)

1995 Capannelle/Avignonesi 50/50 (better than I would have expected. showing a nice maturity. for drinking now.)

1978 Camille Giroud Corton (four square, classic, and just really nice)

1962 Maison Thomas-Basset (sp?) Chambertin (just tremendous for about 8 minutes after decanting, and then gone like the wind)

1990 Comte Armand "Clos de Epenaux" Pommard (big and solid, thick, mature but not in the way that it has moved much)

1989 Beaucastel CNDP Rouge (I didn't get enough time with this, but I remember liking it. Maturish)

1999 Cotat LGC Sancerre (very nice, but put it down for another 10 years, I think)
 
Do you have any generalizations about 2000 GCs? Drinking now? Or any illuminating examples good or bad?

How was '05 Ramonet Montrachet?
 
Sorry, got cut off a bit because I had to take a phone call. Will go back and edit.

I loved the 05 Batard, it was a favorite amongst most of the young vintages. The 05 Bienvenue was nice and fresh as well and I liked it alright. Clive referred to it as more feminine, which it was. The 05 Montrachet was a bit of a disappointment for me. The acidic spine that was so nice in the 05 Batard stuck out unpleasantly and awkwardly in the 05 Montrachet.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
Sorry, got cut off a bit because I had to take a phone call. Will go back and edit.

I loved the 05 Batard, it was a favorite amongst most of the young vintages. The 05 Bienvenue was nice and fresh as well and I liked it alright. Clive referred to it as more feminine, which it was. The 05 Montrachet was a bit of a disappointment for me. The acidic spine that was so nice in the 05 Batard stuck out unpleasantly and awkwardly in the 05 Montrachet.
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How interesting.
 
I don't hate you at all, but I am jealous.

Also a bit frustrated. These big tastings are cool, incredible pedagogical experiences for those involved. And of course I'm sure a lot of pleasure is packed in. But I just keep thinking: that one should have been a 15th wedding anniversary, that one should have celebrated the promotion to junior partner, that one was for the daughter's wedding, etc. As a singular aesthetic experience, I mean.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
... I suspect people will start to hate me a bit ....
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It's rare to encounter this kind of petulance on the bored, in my experience.

Thanks for the wine details, anyway - it must have hurt to spit most of these out. Sounds like a nice experience.
 
originally posted by Steven Spielmann:
I don't hate you at all, but I am jealous.

Also a bit frustrated. These big tastings are cool, incredible pedagogical experiences for those involved. And of course I'm sure a lot of pleasure is packed in. But I just keep thinking: that one should have been a 15th wedding anniversary, that one should have celebrated the promotion to junior partner, that one was for the daughter's wedding, etc. As a singular aesthetic experience, I mean.
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There is also the consideration that a lot of people using wine for one off celebrations don't grasp as much about what is before them as some others might. Which is the bigger loss?

One of the best food and wine pairings of my life came out of that weekend.

And I don't recall any spitting.
 
All in all, I thought that 2000 was not one of those big discovery years, where you go back later and realize that you were wrong in the beginning and it is actually just tremendous. Rather the opposite, in fact. The majority of the wines were unfocused, and when they went wrong, they went really wrong. Particularly terrible were a Delarche Le Corton...
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I recall thinking when they were released that the better 2000s were a good "restaurant wines," developing quickly and reasonably priced, undeserving of some of the bad press. I don't think I have any more in my cellar, except for (I now fear) a Delarche Corton. What was so bad about it?
 
originally posted by Cliff:
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
....

One of the best food and wine pairings of my life came out of that weekend.
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Do tell.
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'02 Bienvenue from Ramonet, which a lot of people adored but I thought was a little too fat on it's own, with a dressed frisee salad with egg and mushrooms that Jim Clendenen made for everyone's lunch. Completely and totally harmonious with the wine. Transformative in fact. An argument for simple dishes with Grand Cru wines. Easily one of the top 10 pairings of my entire life.

As regards the Delarche, bottles are bottles so who knows. But I
hated most everything about my glass. Which was a surprise, because I have liked Delarche whites with some age in the past.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:

'02 Bienvenue from Ramonet, which a lot of people adored but I thought was a little too fat on it's own, with a dressed frisee salad with egg and mushrooms that Jim Clendenen made for everyone's lunch. Completely and totally harmonious with the wine. Transformative in fact. An argument for simple dishes with Grand Cru wines. Easily one of the top 10 pairings of my entire life.
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I used to see this with 1992 as well - often fat and unfocused on their own, but brilliant in the right pairings.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:

There is also the consideration that a lot of people using wine for one off celebrations don't grasp as much about what is before them as some others might. Which is the bigger loss?
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Yes, that is a consideration too. But I still think the ideal would be something like a knowledgeable and sensitive person consuming these bottles over a longer interval with a meal. I know you guys ITB get more out of the big tastings than someone like me does, but I guess it still doesn't seem like a 'natural' way of drinking to me. If that matters. The pairings thing is a further issue when it comes to understanding beverages. I had a seemingly merely acceptable 1976 armagnac the other day that turned into heaven on earth with white chocolate. Out of this world. So what's the 'right' way to look at it then?

But anyway, this is a dumb meta-conversation relative to this thread, what an awesome event to have been at! Thanks for sharing, Levi.
 
Ah, three days - 30 or so wines a day sounds like a reasonable clip for seasoned winers, with pacing and an eye on intake quantity. Must have cost a pretty penny to build those verticals. Very nice.
 
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