Vin Jaune

[Guilhaume gerard]

originally posted by Zev Rovine:

originally posted by Guilhaume gerard:

originally posted by Zev Rovine:
I once tasted a '90 vin jaune of Bornard's that I thought was really great. I don't think that he makes much these days, but I thought that the one that I tasted was quite good.

i thought bornard started in the early 2000's?
i know his dad had some vineyard in pupillin, that he took over, maybe it was his?

Yes, it was indeed his father's vin jaune. I believe that it was made more sulfur than Philippe's wines as well.

Probably

 

[Sharon Bowman]

I love how Macle's says "Vin de Garde" directly on the label.

 

[Guilhaume gerard]

originally posted by Levi Dalton:
GG,

I hear you on the no sulphur leading to earlier approachability, which certainly makes sense to me, but then I don't really know how to account for youngish Overnoy that seemed to have its best years far ahead of it.

It is something beyond sulphur/no sulphur. Probably several things.

One of which might be the terroir of the sites involved. Some of which might be some of the aspects that were referred to earlier.

Specifically, I had heard that Ganevat used Bordeaux barrels for the Vin Jaune, if I recall correctly. And there is something to be said about size of the wood involved leading to increased approachability. Again, think Nebbiolo.

I can't think nebbiolo, i don't drink them enough, nor i have any understanding of the grape.
You make a good point though, there is much more to it than just sulfur/no sulfur.
Everyone is just doing differently with different material to start with, different cellar temperatures, elevations, humidity and so on.
Some producer have very oxidative wines release as early as february of the 6th year of elevage, some will have still fresh, vibrant wines after ten years under the flor.
Some will add some wines during elevage, some won't.
Some will use foudres, some barriques, some bordeaux, some american (yep), some accacia.
Some will put there barriques in the attic, under the roof, some will have their jaune in cooler, more humid cellars.
Some will always taste boring, young and old, because they were dead even before bottling and dead wines don't age, they just go downhill.
But most importantly, some will be great young, and if kept properly, will be even greater as they get older. Overnoy being the best example of those.

 

[Guilhaume gerard]

All that, and the soils.

 

[SFJoe]

originally posted by Guilhaume gerard:
Fanfan,

For those following at home, this is your buddy Ganevat?

 

[Robert Dentice]

Is it possible that Macle is getting less props in this thread than I think he deserves because the wines are very hard to get in the U.S.?

 

[VLM]

originally posted by Guilhaume gerard:

originally posted by Levi Dalton:
GG,

I hear you on the no sulphur leading to earlier approachability, which certainly makes sense to me, but then I don't really know how to account for youngish Overnoy that seemed to have its best years far ahead of it.

It is something beyond sulphur/no sulphur. Probably several things.

One of which might be the terroir of the sites involved. Some of which might be some of the aspects that were referred to earlier.

Specifically, I had heard that Ganevat used Bordeaux barrels for the Vin Jaune, if I recall correctly. And there is something to be said about size of the wood involved leading to increased approachability. Again, think Nebbiolo.

You make a good point though, there is much more to it than just sulfur/no sulfur.

[smile]

Everyone is just doing differently with different material to start with, different cellar temperatures, elevations, humidity and so on.
Some will put there barriques in the attic, under the roof, some will have their jaune in cooler, more humid cellars.

I have to think that what I learned in sherry is applicable to other places where the wine is raised under flor. Essentially, what it means is that the bodegas is the terroir. That is, it's location and "micro-climate", what's growing in it, the character of the flor, the variation in thickness as the weather changes, etc. etc.

Flor is fascinating shit. I hope to make a study of it at some point. With SFJoe and MLipton's help, of course.

 

[VLM]

originally posted by SFJoe:

originally posted by Guilhaume gerard:
Fanfan,

For those following at home, this is your buddy Ganevat?

You know, aside from a 2002 savignan that I had with Sophie, nothing from Ganevat has really moved me. Have not had the Vin Jaune.

 

[Sharon Bowman]

originally posted by Robert Dentice:
Macle
Is it possible that Macle is getting less props in this thread than I think he deserves because the wines are very hard to get in the U.S.?

That'd be a first.

 

[Guilhaume gerard]

originally posted by SFJoe:

originally posted by Guilhaume gerard:
Fanfan,

For those following at home, this is your buddy Ganevat?

oui

 

[Guilhaume gerard]

originally posted by Robert Dentice:
Macle
Is it possible that Macle is getting less props in this thread than I think he deserves because the wines are very hard to get in the U.S.?

who?

 

[SFJoe]

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by SFJoe:

originally posted by Guilhaume gerard:
Fanfan,

For those following at home, this is your buddy Ganevat?

You know, aside from a 2002 savignan that I had with Sophie, nothing from Ganevat has really moved me. Have not had the Vin Jaune.

Nor the ouille savagnins?

 

[VLM]

originally posted by SFJoe:

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by SFJoe:

originally posted by Guilhaume gerard:
Fanfan,

For those following at home, this is your buddy Ganevat?

You know, aside from a 2002 savignan that I had with Sophie, nothing from Ganevat has really moved me. Have not had the Vin Jaune.

Nor the ouille savagnins?

Not sure, will ask Sophie on Saturday. You get my email?

 

[SFJoe]

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by SFJoe:

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by SFJoe:

originally posted by Guilhaume gerard:
Fanfan,

For those following at home, this is your buddy Ganevat?

You know, aside from a 2002 savignan that I had with Sophie, nothing from Ganevat has really moved me. Have not had the Vin Jaune.

Nor the ouille savagnins?

Not sure, will ask Sophie on Saturday. You get my email?

Just replied.

 

[Cory Cartwright]

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by Guilhaume gerard:

originally posted by Levi Dalton:
GG,

I hear you on the no sulphur leading to earlier approachability, which certainly makes sense to me, but then I don't really know how to account for youngish Overnoy that seemed to have its best years far ahead of it.

It is something beyond sulphur/no sulphur. Probably several things.

One of which might be the terroir of the sites involved. Some of which might be some of the aspects that were referred to earlier.

Specifically, I had heard that Ganevat used Bordeaux barrels for the Vin Jaune, if I recall correctly. And there is something to be said about size of the wood involved leading to increased approachability. Again, think Nebbiolo.

You make a good point though, there is much more to it than just sulfur/no sulfur.

[smile]

Everyone is just doing differently with different material to start with, different cellar temperatures, elevations, humidity and so on.
Some will put there barriques in the attic, under the roof, some will have their jaune in cooler, more humid cellars.

I have to think that what I learned in sherry is applicable to other places where the wine is raised under flor. Essentially, what it means is that the bodegas is the terroir. That is, it's location and "micro-climate", what's growing in it, the character of the flor, the variation in thickness as the weather changes, etc. etc.

Flor is fascinating shit. I hope to make a study of it at some point. With SFJoe and MLipton's help, of course.

Manu had much the same thing to say when we asked him about flor. His develops much faster than others and he says this has much to do with how the wine turns out. He talked about sulfur influencing it, but he mainly pointed to the cellar conditions as the main factor.

 

[Levi Dalton]

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by SFJoe:

originally posted by Guilhaume gerard:
Fanfan,

For those following at home, this is your buddy Ganevat?

You know, aside from a 2002 savignan that I had with Sophie, nothing from Ganevat has really moved me. Have not had the Vin Jaune.

Vin de Paille 2002 from Ganevat is a life changer.

Who else agrees with me about this irrelevant. I'm taking that one all the way.

 

[Levi Dalton]

originally posted by Robert Dentice:
Macle
Is it possible that Macle is getting less props in this thread than I think he deserves because the wines are very hard to get in the U.S.?

I have been known to be a fan.

 

[Levi Dalton]

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by Guilhaume gerard:

originally posted by Levi Dalton:
GG,

I hear you on the no sulphur leading to earlier approachability, which certainly makes sense to me, but then I don't really know how to account for youngish Overnoy that seemed to have its best years far ahead of it.

It is something beyond sulphur/no sulphur. Probably several things.

One of which might be the terroir of the sites involved. Some of which might be some of the aspects that were referred to earlier.

Specifically, I had heard that Ganevat used Bordeaux barrels for the Vin Jaune, if I recall correctly. And there is something to be said about size of the wood involved leading to increased approachability. Again, think Nebbiolo.

You make a good point though, there is much more to it than just sulfur/no sulfur.

[smile]

Everyone is just doing differently with different material to start with, different cellar temperatures, elevations, humidity and so on.
Some will put there barriques in the attic, under the roof, some will have their jaune in cooler, more humid cellars.

I have to think that what I learned in sherry is applicable to other places where the wine is raised under flor. Essentially, what it means is that the bodegas is the terroir. That is, it's location and "micro-climate", what's growing in it, the character of the flor, the variation in thickness as the weather changes, etc. etc.

Flor is fascinating shit. I hope to make a study of it at some point. With SFJoe and MLipton's help, of course.

Should have come to the Flor dinner.

But it is more than just Flor for sherry.

How come the products from the same sites are chosen for the same styles of sherry year after year?

How come people flip out over the Finos from Macharnudo Alto?

 

[Arnt Egil Nordlien]

I see most here use flor and voile as if they were the same thing. Now I would certainly agree that there probably are more similarities in the processes where these come in play than not. But the voile of Jura and the flor of Jerez are different strains of yeast that also leads to distinct differences in the resulting wine. Like lower alcohol and more oxidation for vin jaune.

 

[Guilhaume gerard]

originally posted by Arnt Egil Nordlien:
I see most here use flor and voile as if they were the same thing. Now I would certainly agree that there probably are more similarities in the processes where these come in play than not. But the voile of Jura and the flor of Jerez are different strains of yeast that also leads to distinct differences in the resulting wine. Like lower alcohol and more oxidation for vin jaune.

lower alcohol couldn't come from the fact that the wines of jerez are fortified? or that it's south of spain versus north east france?