Vin Jaune

originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
Great line on "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me..." this weekend: "Since I found out about the tracking function, I've been FedExing my iPhone to exotic locations so it looks like I have a cooler life."
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Bravo.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
OK, we're done, thanks everyone.
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what was the tournelle fleur de savagnin vintage we had at 10 bells w/Lipton and Grossman, 07 or 08 ?

Captivating.
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
Great line on "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me..." this weekend: "Since I found out about the tracking function, I've been FedExing my iPhone to exotic locations so it looks like I have a cooler life."
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I heard that!
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
Great line on "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me..." this weekend: "Since I found out about the tracking function, I've been FedExing my iPhone to exotic locations so it looks like I have a cooler life."
Click to expand...

I use "Wait, Wait" as a sleep aid. If it doesn't come in the first 5-10 mins, I never hear it.
 
originally posted by Scott Kraft:
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
Great line on "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me..." this weekend: "Since I found out about the tracking function, I've been FedExing my iPhone to exotic locations so it looks like I have a cooler life."
Click to expand...

I use "Wait, Wait" as a sleep aid. If it doesn't come in the first 5-10 mins, I never hear it.
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Too bad, it's a good show, distinguished by its light touch and deft use of irony, rather like WD. Take your exchange with Nathan this morning on the Clive thread, for example.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Too bad, it's a good show, distinguished by its light touch and deft use of irony, rather like WD. Take your exchange with Nathan this morning on the Clive thread, for example.
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I've indeed heard it all the way through now and again. I'm not a hater. It's just that the timbre of the voices and the lightness of content lullaby me down.

As for the Clive exchange, Nathan and I are planning a 20-city tour! The Kickstarter funding page will go up any day now.
 
originally posted by Arnt Egil Nordlien:
I see most here use flor and voile as if they were the same thing. Now I would certainly agree that there probably are more similarities in the processes where these come in play than not. But the voile of Jura and the flor of Jerez are different strains of yeast that also leads to distinct differences in the resulting wine. Like lower alcohol and more oxidation for vin jaune.
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i have a bit of hard time with your statement that flor and voile are not the same thing at all. I mean, isn't the flor called "a velo de flor"? as in "a voile de flor"?

Of course, i understand very clearly we are talking about different yeasts strains in the south of spain and in the jura, on different grapes and all, but it seems pretty clear to me that these strains, even very different, end up creating something very similar in these two regions (and many more), however you'd like to call it a voile, a flor, a velo de flor, a voile de flor etc...

Also, i'm not sure you actually tasted overnoy's vin jaune, but i would argue that it doesn't show that much oxidation for a single vintage wine aged for at least 10 years.
One more thing, how is it that what you call flor has any influence on the alcohol level? it doesn't make any sense to me. Higher level alcohol in sherry is due to the climate and the fortification, not to the flor.Maybe that flor does thrive with higher alcohol as you suggested earlier, but i do have a hard time making sense to that as well, maybe you can help?
 
I said there are more similarities than not. The presence of flor do make distinct (flor-like) wines from wherever they are made. Yet I wanted to point out that there are differences also in this discussion.

Because there are different strains of yeast that makes up the veils in different places and they do behave different (I don't care about the name, voile, flor, velo whatever. It was merely to give them two different names).

As you know all kinds of yeast thrive within a certain level of alcohol and this can vary greatly from strain to strain. Why should it be different with the strains that makes up the different flors? The flors does not have any direct impact on the alcohol-level. Yet if the winemaker in Manzanilla wants to make a wine with influence of the flor, he knows what amount of alcohol where the flor thrives the best. So he makes a wine of this amount of alcohol and which differs from for example if he wanted to make an Oloroso.

I remember talking to Stephane Tissot some years ago and he said the veils in Jura are always much thinner than in Jerez and he always considered the Vin jaune an oxidative wine (no I have not tasted Overnoys vin jaune, nor is it for sale here in Norway unfortunately).

Perhaps the wine that puts itself aside among the flor-wines is the Vernaccia di Oristano with high levels of glycerol. I have tried to read a little on this subject recently without really getting complete answers. But there seems to be a strain, saccharomyces bailii, that metabolises the fructose instead (or in such a way) that it does not use the glycerol. And produces quite a lot of acetaldehyd in this process. I got some pictures from Contini some time back and the veils they have in the barrels seems very compact (compact more than thick) and I would think they gave a good isolation against oxidation. Yet many of the wines have very high levels of volatile acidity. 1 g/L is not unusual. So perhaps this is some of the answer. Perhaps it has nothing to do with the answer.

To sum up I am certain that there are differences that makes up the veils of flor and that these differences do make an impact on the final wine.
 
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