Dosage spikes down!

S

SFJoe

Joe Dougherty
"The trend towards dryer Champagnes has become official. Moët & Chandon, Champagne’s largest house--selling an estimated 30 million bottles annually--has introduced the new version of its flagship non-vintage Brut Imperial, the world’s largest-selling Champagne, with 9 grams per liter of residual sugar. That is down from the previous blend’s 12 g/l.

And that’s just the beginning, according to Benoît Gouez, Moët’s Chef de Cave (chief winemaker). “The change will be gradual,” said Gouez at a recent tasting of a lineup of Moët & Chandon Champagnes. “We want to allow our Moët customers to adjust to the dryer style. We eventually might want to lower the dosage in the Brut Imperial to 7 grams, and perhaps even 6.”"

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www.winereviewonline.com
 
Now I am all for more measured dosage, but it strikes me as odd that there is such limited skepticism regarding the potential effects of the zero dosage movement. I know Tom Stevenson has said that he has concerns regarding how such cuvees will age, but I don't hear anything from the geek community except applause.

Doesn't anybody like to age their Champagnes anymore? Do people worry about the implications of these changes on ageability?
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
If the ageability of the wine depends on the sugar content, does it matter if that sugar comes from riper grapes or a dosage?
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Who knows. Not to mention that the vins clairs are fermented dry, so riper grapes would (I assume) just produce a higher alcohol wine.
 
originally posted by David M. Bueker:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
If the ageability of the wine depends on the sugar content, does it matter if that sugar comes from riper grapes or a dosage?
Click to expand...

Who knows. Not to mention that the vins clairs are fermented dry, so riper grapes would (I assume) just produce a higher alcohol wine.
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One that does not require chaptalization.
 
originally posted by David M. Bueker:
Now I am all for more measured dosage, but it strikes me as odd that there is such limited skepticism regarding the potential effects of the zero dosage movement. I know Tom Stevenson has said that he has concerns regarding how such cuvees will age, but I don't hear anything from the geek community except applause.

Doesn't anybody like to age their Champagnes anymore? Do people worry about the implications of these changes on ageability?
Click to expand...

Your hearing is so often different from mine, it's interesting.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by David M. Bueker:
Now I am all for more measured dosage, but it strikes me as odd that there is such limited skepticism regarding the potential effects of the zero dosage movement. I know Tom Stevenson has said that he has concerns regarding how such cuvees will age, but I don't hear anything from the geek community except applause.

Doesn't anybody like to age their Champagnes anymore? Do people worry about the implications of these changes on ageability?
Click to expand...

Your hearing is so often different from mine, it's interesting.
Click to expand...

I am sure that for many reasons we also listen in different places.
 
originally posted by David M. Bueker:
Doesn't anybody like to age their Champagnes anymore? Do people worry about the implications of these changes on ageability?
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The first question is more about people than wine, eh?

As to the second question, do you have any evidence, other than the word of one blender at one big Champagne house? (After all, he has to be careful not to say too much about how wonderful the lower dosage is going to be because it makes him look stupid for not having done it sooner.)
 
Eh? Tom Stevenson? Blender at a big Champagne house? Did he get a new job I don't know about. What did I miss while crashing into Argentinian mountains?
 
Oh, I worry about the ageability of non-dose cuvees, Jeff. I discuss it with my Champagne-inclined friends. Peter Liem discusses it, Tom Stevenson discusses it, it is a real issue. Sugar does appear to be a preservative.

For most of the non-dose cuvees there isn't enough of a history to know for sure, though I suppose that applies also to newly low-dose big house wines. So it's an open question. Non-dose wines that I cellar I keep an eye on, I'll open them more frequently. No big deal, I don't age that much Champagne, so it's only a few wines for me, but I worry about them more than other things.

Hence my puzzlement at David's total assurance of our insouciance. For me, it's an active, open question.
 
Interesting points on aging non dosé champagne, but I'm curious that you would be so much more wary of it than, say, of other high acid-low sugar wines you age quite blithely, such as Huet Sec.
 
originally posted by David M. Bueker:
Eh? Tom Stevenson? Blender at a big Champagne house? Did he get a new job I don't know about. What did I miss while crashing into Argentinian mountains?
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What are you babbling about? The linked article is written by Ed McCarthy and the paragraph in question claims to be a discussion with "Roederer’s outstanding Chef de Cave, Jean-Baptiste Lécaillon".

Your hearing really is funky.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
Oh, I worry about the ageability of non-dose cuvees, Jeff. I discuss it with my Champagne-inclined friends. Peter Liem discusses it, Tom Stevenson discusses it, it is a real issue. Sugar does appear to be a preservative.

For most of the non-dose cuvees there isn't enough of a history to know for sure, though I suppose that applies also to newly low-dose big house wines. So it's an open question. Non-dose wines that I cellar I keep an eye on, I'll open them more frequently. No big deal, I don't age that much Champagne, so it's only a few wines for me, but I worry about them more than other things.

Hence my puzzlement at David's total assurance of our insouciance. For me, it's an active, open question.
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Thank you for the (snark-free) explanation.
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
Interesting points on aging non dosé champagne, but I'm curious that you would be so much more wary of it than, say, of other high acid-low sugar wines you age quite blithely, such as Huet Sec.
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Huet sec usually has a fair amount of rs, 6-9 grams, something like that.

I worry a bit more in Vouvray about more gentle pressing that makes the wines more suave early but extracts fewer phenolics. Will that make them age differently? I have no idea.

It's like the variable of riper grapes in Champagne. It changes things too. How will such wines age? Dunno, but maybe Clos des Goisses is a site that looked years ago the way other sites look now..? Warm, sunny, ripe. No need to chaptalize. Low dosage. The experience with that wine could encourage you about aging, but it could also be that Clos des Goisses is special and great and others won't do so well, who knows?
 
Good points, Joe.

I've always found it curious that part of what makes Krug's Clos du Mesnil so "special" is that it has a wall around it, keeping the wind out.

Back to aging. Ed McCarthy writes: "In 1889, Laurent-Perrier introduced its Grand Vin sans Sucre, the first commercial brut zero Champagne." And: "...Laurent-Perrier sold an actual Brut Zero in the past; it had introduced its Ultra Brut in 1980."

Who's following these?

And did they continue to be made, and until when?
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
Good points, Joe.

I've always found it curious that part of what makes Krug's Clos du Mesnil so "special" is that it has a wall around it, keeping the wind out.

Back to aging. Ed McCarthy writes: "In 1889, Laurent-Perrier introduced its Grand Vin sans Sucre, the first commercial brut zero Champagne." And: "...Laurent-Perrier sold an actual Brut Zero in the past; it had introduced its Ultra Brut in 1980."

Who's following these?

And did they continue to be made, and until when?
Click to expand...
Everyone knows that the 19th C L-P GVsS is the favorite of fraudsters.
 
I wish we would all start drinking that, so that we could be all in the know with our CRB-style abbreviations: "Opened 1893 LPGVsS last night."
 
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