report of Clos St. Hune premox

originally posted by Jay Miller:
originally posted by mlawton:
Re: 94:
malolactic

"Next we'll hear that JJ Prm is having issues..."

That's not premature oxidation, it's premature peroxidation!
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I thought '93 was the year that went through malo?
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Huh? JJ Prm's 93 went through malo????
not the ones I have ...

(a poor man who doesn't understand a single word of the fuzz here - my CSH and CFE are all nice and well behaved. Maybe it is a question of education. Our wines can only talk at the table if they are asked to give their opinion - no jumping on the sofa allowed either)
 
FYI - drinking the '96 CFE right now. The bottle is from a non-optimal, Western, Massachusetts retailer who had it for 4 years or so, but the wine is lovely.
 
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Jay Miller:
Sorry, but the whole issue with the premature oxidation curse is that it strikes randomly and some bottles in a case will be affected and others won't.
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Examine the language you are using carefully. It is mystical. While there very well may be a problem, and I have had bottles of 1996 white Burgundy that seemed prematurely aged and oxidized, until there is some sort of causal explanation that has a testable null hypothesis, I'm leery of the whole thing.

There are so many alternate explanations that no reasonable person with a halfway scientific bent could settle on this with the kind of evidence in existence.
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yes, the language is mystical but that was intended humorously. I don't know of anyone who seriously believes the problem does not exist in white Burgundy at a minimum. Just because a cause has not been proven does not mean the problem does not exist. The effect has been demonstrated.
 
originally posted by Jay Miller:
I don't know of anyone who seriously believes the problem does not exist in white Burgundy at a minimum. Just because a cause has not been proven does not mean the problem does not exist. The effect has been demonstrated.
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I take it that the politburo has finally decreed that it's okay to talk about religion here...

-Eden (politics would be even more fun!)
 
My friends in the UK wine trade are claiming that it is everywhere, reds included, but with a different manifestation for the reds. I'm not there, but some of the Burgundy producers are -- of course, it eases the pressure on them.
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
My friends in the UK wine trade are claiming that it is everywhere, reds included, but with a different manifestation for the reds. I'm not there, but some of the Burgundy producers are -- of course, it eases the pressure on them.
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By 'it' I assume you mean premature oxidation?

If so, I don't see how it eases the pressure on the producers or the wine trade. Instead it seems to make things worse. Much much worse.
 
I presume he means that it takes the heat off of Burgundy as the locus of the problem.

I admit I just haven't seen evidence for it spreading beyond Burgundy -- an anecdote here and there, yes, but nothing that would indicate a pervasive problem -- but I suppose we'll see.
 
originally posted by Thor:
I presume he means that it takes the heat off of Burgundy as the locus of the problem..
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Aha, by everywhere he means all over France (or even Europe). That is much worse but I see how it takes the pressure off specific producers/regions.
 
Which gets me back to the idea that it has to be the cork. There's too much variance in other winemaking techniques for it to be anything else.

Was the switch to silicone coating on corks pretty much universal in the mid-90s?
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
My friends in the UK wine trade are claiming that it is everywhere, reds included, but with a different manifestation for the reds. I'm not there, but some of the Burgundy producers are -- of course, it eases the pressure on them.
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How are they saying it manifests in reds?
 
But...but...it didn't start in the late sixties...

I'd be all for the blame-the-cork theory if we had more than whispers that it was a more widespread problem, which so far we don't. Maybe we need a non-Burgundy wiki or something, but I've been hearing "it's spreading" for two years now, and so far the number of named non-white-Burgundy bottles in any venue or forum hasn't crested about five or six. That's not even in the-plural-of-anecdote-is-not-data range, that's just normal random oxidation. For which we can blame the cork.
 
originally posted by Jay Miller:
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
My friends in the UK wine trade are claiming that it is everywhere, reds included, but with a different manifestation for the reds. I'm not there, but some of the Burgundy producers are -- of course, it eases the pressure on them.
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How are they saying it manifests in reds?
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They say that it results in a muted, inexpressive wine. I don't see how they can distinguish that from low-level TCA, though. Furthermore, I open enough red Burgundy that has been cellared that I should be coming across it, too, and I have not been.
 
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