Haven't laughed this hard in ages

Anthony Braxton would be proud of that Clapton snark vid. Would that Eric had the balls to go that far.

Totally disagree about Jimmy Page...we watched a '73 live of LZ the other night and I was astounded at his feeling, technique and imagination. Might have been the drugs, but he was on, really on. His guitar took on huge orchestral tones and he wailed at the same time. Without keyboard or rhythm guitar to fill the gaps, that ain't easy. Way more interesting to me than Clapton, who is (to me) a textbook guitar lick kind of player.

Ditto what Ned says about Garcia and Zappa. I always go back to those guys when I need a real hit. Like I mentioned to you before, Oswaldo, Jerry rarely repeated himself in his solos. I still can't figure that out....except that he just was the kind of player that constantly wanted to go somewhere he's never been.
 
originally posted by Joel Stewart:

Ditto what Ned says about Garcia and Zappa. I always go back to those guys when I need a real hit. Like I mentioned to you before, Oswaldo, Jerry rarely repeated himself in his solos. I still can't figure that out....except that he just was the kind of player that constantly wanted to go somewhere he's never been.
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Zappa to me is possibly the most underrated of electric guitarists. His playing on e.g. Shut Up 'n' Play Yer Guitar is quite compelling and unique. Garcia on the other hand has always struck me as a more accomplished banjo player than a guitarist per se, not least of which because of physiognomy. Old and In the Way is a great example of his playing, though it certainly doesn't hurt to be paired with David Grisman, either.

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Pete Townsend was astonishing, but not really a soloist of any note (sorry).
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Not a lot of notes, but the ones played were REALLY plated. Try listening to any version of Young Man Blues from '69 - '70. The solos are about wringing as much sheer intensity from Gibson P-90 pickups and a Hiwatt stack as humanly possible. A riveting soloist, every eye in the room was transfixed. You must be focusing on technical proficiency as your primary criteria if that's what you think.
 
originally posted by MLipton:
Zappa to me is possibly the most underrated of electric guitarists... Garcia on the other hand has always struck me as a more accomplished banjo player than a guitarist per se, not least of which because of physiognomy.

Mark Lipton
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Zappa's playing got somewhat hidden amidst that vast body of satirical and social commentary songwriting which makes it less amenable to normal listening and appreciation. Which is of course why the SUAPYG releases stand out.

This Garcia comment is a real head scratcher. He had a nice loose feel and swing to his banjo style that distinguished itself to a modest extent but the body of work is tiny in comparison to his guitar work. The missing finger no doubt was a factor in shaping that style, but considering he pretty much invented an electric guitar playing style and approach that would eventually become a genre, it seems like that is his legacy.
 
Garcia gave up banjo playing for a long time while with the Dead and his own band because, per his account (paraphrased), he felt he couldn't be really good on both instruments at the same time. When he was playing acoustic with Grisman, he did both, and his guitar playing is sweet and precise (there used to be a documentary on Netflix with a lot of footage of him and Grisman playing together).

Not sure why his amputated finger would play much of a role, as most of his electric guitar work was flat-, not finger-picked, though occasionally you can see him using his pinky for the odd upstroke pick - maybe a carry-over from banjo. You could really see him melding with the instrument, though, practically watch him thinking out loud with it.
 
I saw one of The Who's shows in the early '00s (John Entwhistle was still among the living). Wasn't planning to go, but when a $10 ticket came into my hand, why not?

I had seen The Who in Feb. '76 at Winterland. Pete's soloing was excellent, but rarely indulgent. Even though the '00s show paled in comparison, Pete had turned into a real lead guitarist when the music called for it. What I remember most about that '76 show was the towering performance by Keith Moon. He was ridiculously on that night.

Regarding Ned's comment on Young Man Blues, just don't listen to it, rent the video of their 1970 performance at the Isle of Wight Festival and watch it.

Zappa was a seriously great guitarist. He's still one of the finest players I've ever seen live.

I'm a card-carrying Deadhead so no need to comment on Jerry. However, if you want to get the full flavor of his talent, have someone give you a show from 1972 or 1973. Listen to the short songs, fast and slow. The country covers. Then, listen to one of the massive versions of Dark Star and/or The Other One from that period.
 
Following Ned's post, I checked out the Isle of Wight Young Man Blues this morning on youtube, and while it's fantastic wall-of-sound playing, it's not what I call soloing. I saw The Who in London in 1971/2 and they were awesome, but I have something different in mind, a solo that tells a story with a beginning, middle and end, and shows a certain degree of harmonic and melodic invention within the blues/rock idiom. I'll look for something illustrative and post it.
 
originally posted by Ned Hoey:

This Garcia comment is a real head scratcher. He had a nice loose feel and swing to his banjo style that distinguished itself to a modest extent but the body of work is tiny in comparison to his guitar work. The missing finger no doubt was a factor in shaping that style, but considering he pretty much invented an electric guitar playing style and approach that would eventually become a genre, it seems like that is his legacy.
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Ned,
Again I must preface my comment with the disclaimer that I'm no guitar player and only have an appreciation for the craft that years of study of the violin can impart. I like Jerry's playing, which is a good thing given the number of shows I caught from '74 to '92, but it never struck me as particularly innovative. Perhaps I am just not attuned enough to the nuances of playing that demonstrate that innovation. I dunno. YMMV as always.

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by MLipton:
Ned,
Again I must preface my comment with the disclaimer that I'm no guitar player and only have an appreciation for the craft that years of study of the violin can impart. I like Jerry's playing, which is a good thing given the number of shows I caught from '74 to '92, but it never struck me as particularly innovative. Perhaps I am just not attuned enough to the nuances of playing that demonstrate that innovation. I dunno. YMMV as always.

Mark Lipton
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As merely an observer not a player, what I believe to be innovative is the melding of bluegrass and folk, blues, country, jazz (bebop in particular) to various degrees, evolving over time, in way that I can't say I've seen anyone else do even remotely. He did it so thoroughly and inhabited it so completely that he made it appear less remarkable and unique than it was. Most of the others were much more blues inspired although Beck did fuse with jazz in the 70s.

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
...it's not what I call soloing... I have something different in mind, a solo that tells a story with a beginning, middle and end, and shows a certain degree of harmonic and melodic invention within the blues/rock idiom.
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Ok that's a more formal definition and so following that stricter idea, Zappa immediately comes to mind because from about '73 on, many of his solos fit that definition. He would construct massive "edifices" of sound, exploring a melody or theme, layering ever more intricate variations along with more dense tones.
I can't think of a specific example available to check out online but I'll look around.
 
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