TN: Soul Flavors (June 3, 2011)

J

Jeff Grossman

Jeff Grossman
Congratulations to Chef Wayne!

Chef Wayne won his episode of "Chopped!" so Jay and I went to his restaurant, Soul Flavors, to celebrate his success. (It doesn't hurt that the restaurant is in Jersey City, walking distance from Jay's abode, and that I am commuting past Jersey City every day now.)

There's a reason that the classics became the classics: Chef Wayne's beef short rib is roasted and tender and slightly jellied and not too sweet, and the buttermilk-soaked fried chicken is salty, crispy, firm. Mmm.

We pulled a few corks, of course (...but you don't offer wine to a man so many years good on his recovery):

P. Thomas 2005 Sancerre Blanc "Les Comtesses" - The last of the Sancerre wines I hand-carried back from Sancerre. Others have been quite good but this is not: acidity is tame; it lacks intensity, verve, nuance... oh well.

Baudry 2009 Chinon Blanc - the regular bottling; oh so young; not so zippy as a young Huet, say, but plenty waxy and plenty long; later, more citrus and spice notes appear; definitely worth the tiny tariff asked.

St. Innocent 1999 Pinot Noir "Seven Springs Vineyard" - sous-bois, earth, dark, brandied cherries, a little low acid; but me like, Jay not so much.

Mt. Eden 2008 Pinot Noir - face-powder and raspberries, crisp and very assertive; does not suit me at all but Jay loves it.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:

Baudry 2008 Chinon Blanc "La Croix Boisee" - oh so young; not so zippy as a young Huet, say, but plenty waxy and plenty long; later, more citrus and spice notes appear; definitely worth the tiny tariff asked.
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I never find Chinon Blanc to be as zippy as Vouvray. I assumed it was a terroir-thing, perhaps the lack of limestone for the Chinon chenin. But maybe someone else has real knowledge. The waxy notes certainly remind one of the neighbors a bit west in Anjou.
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
I never find Chinon Blanc to be as zippy as Vouvray. I assumed it was a terroir-thing, perhaps the lack of limestone for the Chinon chenin. But maybe someone else has real knowledge. The waxy notes certainly remind one of the neighbors a bit west in Anjou.
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Agreed but this particular bottle did.
 
Congrats to Chef Wayne! He was always thrilled to have people appreciate his food. Good chef, good guy. And damn, those short ribs...
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
lack of limestone for the Chinon chenin.
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Don't think Guillot suffers from limestone deficiency.

I wonder what really accounts for the marked difference?

vlm?
 
Amusing note: The back of the St Innocent has a blurb from the maker, Mark Vlossak. The closing line is that the wine will benefit from aging "up to 12 years."

Which is, completely accidentally, what I did.

Good to know he's on the ball.
 
Just for the record the Mt. Eden is gorgeous though perhaps a touch more shut down than my last bottle from a few months ago. Probably time to either drink up or place in storage.
 
Fwiw, the St. Innocent website, iirc, keeps a pretty conscientious record of the state of readiness of each year's bottlings. Useful for reference.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by Rahsaan:
lack of limestone for the Chinon chenin.
Click to expand...
Don't think Guillot suffers from limestone deficiency.

I wonder what really accounts for the marked difference?

vlm?
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Nor La Croix Boissée, but a different limestone from Vouvray to be sure; has a bit more colour for one thing. I don't think they have as much Silex in Chinon as in Vouvray, but they do collect more heat units. Then, there is the air, and the light.
 
Traditionally, vouvray and chinon are vinified in a very different style.
Chinon's more in the "no malo" style that Saumur or jasniere usually favors. If i remember correctly, vouvray's are usually short elevage, for example, Huet, and most vouvray producers are bottling in april, to capture the "primary flavors", while chinon or saumur blanc's elevages are much longer, with a fairly high dose of so2 added at crush and every couple months until bottling, supposedly to avoid malo-lactic, and oxydation, but strangely, also to capture that "primary fruit" from their chenin.. I must admit having a harder time with that style. People i know, making saumur or jasniere that way do so believing that the high so2/long elevage will keep the wines fresh for a long time. Me, i don't understand the point of it compare to a shorter elevage (i mean, vouvray can age). If you going to sulfur a lot to avoid oxidation, might as well do a short aging, or age in tank, not barrels.... Also, eric talked about something interesting while we were discussing the 2 styles, his take (please correct me if i'm wrong) was "why always avoid malo, while sometimes there is just not that high of a level of malic acids that will ferment anyway... It wouldn't change the wine all that much..."
this is in my opinion, why chinon or saumur blancs are so closed and austere for quite some time, but i have to admit liking a few wines in both styles, and quite a few from the "long elevage/low sulfur/malo" as well (pithon's old domaine, etc...)
Now, i'm just talking about vinifications, as i do not have a real deep knowledge on the differences in soils and their influences on the wines within the 3 aoc's i'm talking about here.
 
Finished the Baudry tonight. Noticed, on careful inspection, that Jay did not render the wine correctly to me. Changes made above.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
The End.Finished the Baudry tonight. Noticed, on careful inspection, that Jay did not render the wine correctly to me. Changes made above.
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I thought I said 2009. Certainly my comment as to the ripeness of the vintage was intended with that in mind. But I cannot rule out having misspoken.
 
originally posted by Guilhaume gerard:
Traditionally, vouvray and chinon are vinified in a very different style.
Chinon's more in the "no malo" style that Saumur or jasniere usually favors. If i remember correctly, vouvray's are usually short elevage, for example, Huet, and most vouvray producers are bottling in april, to capture the "primary flavors", while chinon or saumur blanc's elevages are much longer, with a fairly high dose of so2 added at crush and every couple months until bottling, supposedly to avoid malo-lactic, and oxydation, but strangely, also to capture that "primary fruit" from their chenin.. I must admit having a harder time with that style. People i know, making saumur or jasniere that way do so believing that the high so2/long elevage will keep the wines fresh for a long time. Me, i don't understand the point of it compare to a shorter elevage (i mean, vouvray can age). If you going to sulfur a lot to avoid oxidation, might as well do a short aging, or age in tank, not barrels.... Also, eric talked about something interesting while we were discussing the 2 styles, his take (please correct me if i'm wrong) was "why always avoid malo, while sometimes there is just not that high of a level of malic acids that will ferment anyway... It wouldn't change the wine all that much..."
this is in my opinion, why chinon or saumur blancs are so closed and austere for quite some time, but i have to admit liking a few wines in both styles, and quite a few from the "long elevage/low sulfur/malo" as well (pithon's old domaine, etc...)
Now, i'm just talking about vinifications, as i do not have a real deep knowledge on the differences in soils and their influences on the wines within the 3 aoc's i'm talking about here.
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Do you see a lot of Vouvray that goes through malo?

I think that in most vintages these wines all have pH low enough that they probably wouldn't undergo a spontaneous malo.

I doubt that Baudry whacks the wines with that much SO2...?
 
Oswaldo, unless the vintage is extreme, you don't have to go to such lengths to avoid malo in chenin, the pH is too low to be hospitable to the ML bacteria.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Is this even more true for Melon and Romorantin?
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I don't know about "more," but yes, spontaneous MLF would be unusual for either of those, AFAIK.
 
Seem counter intuitive that they would use more acidic grapes in cooler climates and less acidic grapes (viognier and marsanne; I think rousanne is more acidic) in warmer climates. Assuming, of course, that healthy acidity has historically been a preference for European drinkers.
 
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