2006 Sella Lessona 13.0%

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My bottles of '01 Lessona were at peak 7-8 years after vintage. I never found the wine over-oaked and loved every bottle, save for the last a few months back which was in decline. Others have reported that they preferred the wine younger.

I recall a brief discussion with Cristiano a few years back about the elevage for the '01 but unfortunately can't recall the fine points of that conversation.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
With a bit of searching in re the 2001 Lessona, I find that Cliff has failed to like them before, that VLM advocates drinking it young while Oliver advocates drinking it older, and I am satisfied with it. All in this lengthy thread.
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Well, I did say "very, very nice." Looks like I was off by a year; the couple of bottles I had since then (2009) weren't as impressive as that one. It's only a few bottles, so who knows. But I don't remember being put off by wood on any of them.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
Longer in new oak can moderate the effects, as Maria Jose could tell you.

It's paradoxical, and I haven't looked into the chemistry.

There is a decent amount of literature about it that I haven't read, as usual.
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I have this regards to oak tannins, in that they seem softer and less obtrusive with more time in barrel, but I have never heard anybody say that more time in oak equates with a wine that tastes (asides from tannins) or smells less of oak.

But I am ignorant of many things.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
originally posted by SFJoe:
Longer in new oak can moderate the effects, as Maria Jose could tell you.

It's paradoxical, and I haven't looked into the chemistry.

There is a decent amount of literature about it that I haven't read, as usual.
Click to expand...

I have this regards to oak tannins, in that they seem softer and less obtrusive with more time in barrel, but I have never heard anybody say that more time in oak equates with a wine that tastes (asides from tannins) or smells less of oak.

But I am ignorant of many things.
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I don't understand how or why it works, but I'd cite to North Berkeley Import's standard operating procedures with burgundy in the late 90s and early 2000s. It could be the same now but I have no way of knowing since I couldn't stand much of what I tried.

Where they could get away with it (e.g. Jean Raphet, Magnien et al.), North Berkeley's formula was to dramatically increase the amount of new barrels followed by shortening the elevage. The stated goal was to "preserve the freshness of the fruit" and to "avoid drying out the wine." Neither goal was accomplished. The wines were very superficially sweetened and fattened by the new oak, received good critical scores, were sold and then promptly fell apart. Magnien's wines also seemed particularly forced to me - likely enzymes or other extraction tricks at work. Raphet wasn't so extracted but with age, became hollow and retained the greener oak tannin/structure.

I certainly don't claim this was true of all NBI imports as I'm sure many of their producers didn't give any latitude in interfering with the winemaking. I simply noted that the "increased new oak + shortened elevage" formula was, to my taste, particularly unsuccessful.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
I have never heard anybody say that more time in oak equates with a wine that tastes (asides from tannins) or smells less of oak.
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I have.

The technical literature I read once measured some of the oak aromatics to peak at 10-12 months and decline thereafter.

In cellars with long elevage where you taste a series of vintages in barrel you can get a sense of this sometimes, though there are many confounders.

I have heard Nadi Foucault, as one example, chastise others for brief elevage in new wood as leading to harshly oaky wines.
 
After the first year or so, depending on variety and size of vessel, it's less elevage than vieillissage (if I may misuse the word).
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
I have never heard anybody say that more time in oak equates with a wine that tastes (asides from tannins) or smells less of oak.
Click to expand...
I have.

The technical literature I read once measured some of the oak aromatics to peak at 10-12 months and decline thereafter.

In cellars with long elevage where you taste a series of vintages in barrel you can get a sense of this sometimes, though there are many confounders.

I have heard Nadi Foucault, as one example, chastise others for brief elevage in new wood as leading to harshly oaky wines.
Click to expand...

I suspect that Cabernet Franc and Nebbiolo may be a bit different in this regard, if what you say holds. I can't think of a Barolo producer for whom this would hold true.
 
I ask in all sincerity, are there Barolo producers who exposed their wines briefly (say, 8 months?) to oak and then bottled?

But the literature I read was not Cab Franc. It was in English, probably from UCD, and probably about CS.

I'll look if I get some time.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
I ask in all sincerity, are there Barolo producers who exposed their wines briefly (say, 8 months?) to oak and then bottled?
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I'm actually looking at it the other way around, that is to say, those Barolos that spend a long time in oak taste like they spent a long time oak to me.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
originally posted by SFJoe:
I ask in all sincerity, are there Barolo producers who exposed their wines briefly (say, 8 months?) to oak and then bottled?
Click to expand...

I'm actually looking at it the other way around, that is to say, those Barolos that spend a long time in oak taste like they spent a long time oak to me.
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I quite agree. But my question is whether they might have tasted worse a year or two earlier?
 
The distinction between the impact of longer stays in wood on tannins v. flavor reminded me of a visit to Luis Pato, whose Quinta do Ribeirinho Pé Franco was part of the Convivio Pie Franco dinner. The Ribeirinho, 100% Baga (the "Nebbiolo of Portugal"), is the only one of Pato's wines aged in 100% new oak. Asked why, he said it was the only must that had enough "structure" to withstand new wood without acquiring its taste (which he doesn't want). He added that, in contrast, (his) Touriga Nacional and Cabernet Sauvignon couldn't handle 100% new wood. Asked "but why new wood at all if you doen't want the taste?" he said he wanted the greater micro-oxygenation caused by fully open pores and the higher level of wood tannins because these interact with the Baga tannins, resulting in "improved polymerization and longer fibers." He is a trained chemist, but I understand, from previous times I've brought it up, that this claim is controversial. But to the extent that it might be true, it would probably be shared by Nebbiolo more than Cabernet Franc.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Is his idea regarding interaction with oxygen that of new wood pores are more fully open than old wood pores?
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Yes, the more a barrel is used, the more its pores get clogged. Opinions seem to vary on how long it takes to fully clog them, but they tend to cluster around third usage.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
The distinction between the impact of longer stays in wood on tannins v. flavor reminded me of a visit to Luis Pato, whose Quinta do Ribeirinho Pé Franco was part of the Convivio Pie Franco dinner. The Ribeirinho, 100% Baga (the "Nebbiolo of Portugal"), is the only one of Pato's wines aged in 100% new oak. Asked why, he said it was the only must that had enough "structure" to withstand new wood without acquiring its taste (which he doesn't want). He added that, in contrast, (his) Touriga Nacional and Cabernet Sauvignon couldn't handle 100% new wood. Asked "but why new wood at all if you doen't want the taste?" he said he wanted the greater micro-oxygenation caused by fully open pores and the higher level of wood tannins because these interact with the Baga tannins, resulting in "improved polymerization and longer fibers." He is a trained chemist, but I understand, from previous times I've brought it up, that this claim is controversial. But to the extent that it might be true, it would probably be shared by Nebbiolo more than Cabernet Franc.
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I'll mention it to Giovanni Conterno and see what he says.

Baga and Nebbiolo seem pretty different to me. Like Aglianico, what they share is highish acidity with highish grape tannin, and some ability to show minerals and floral tones. But Joe and Jo Bob aren't the same person, despite some shared characteristics.

The Cab family has long shown it does ok with oak, like Latour for example.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Is his idea regarding interaction with oxygen that of new wood pores are more fully open than old wood pores?
Click to expand...

Yes, the more a barrel is used, the more its pores get clogged. Opinions seem to vary on how long it takes to fully clog them, but they tend to cluster around third usage.
Click to expand...

Hmm. I thought many makers used old (clean) wooden barrels specifically in order to allow gradual interaction between the wine and exterior atmosphere.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Is his idea regarding interaction with oxygen that of new wood pores are more fully open than old wood pores?
Click to expand...

Yes, the more a barrel is used, the more its pores get clogged. Opinions seem to vary on how long it takes to fully clog them, but they tend to cluster around third usage.
Click to expand...

Hmm. I thought many makers used old (clean) wooden barrels specifically in order to allow gradual interaction between the wine and exterior atmosphere.
Click to expand...

After the pores clog, there is still a degree of oxygen exchange through the bung hole.
 
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