originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by SFJoe:
"Its", for crying out loud.
If this post refers to the post above you, since the word was a contraction, "it's" is correct. "Its" is only the possessive.
On the Kane/VLM debate, it has become a matter of semantics. The monkey seems to mean by bacon only the form of salt cured pork belly made in North Carolina, Virginia, Kentucky and Tennessee. Working with this definition, he is, of course, correct that only the Southeastern US makes real bacon. Of course this definition produces his conclusion as a tautology and so makes the argument without interest.
I suppose he could further specify that salt cured pork belly made in these states has some property that salt cured pork belly made nowhere else has (in addition to its provenance). That would make the argument have more content. It would still make the claim that only the Southeastern US makes real bacon be, at best, an hyperbole.
It pains me to agree with Brad on two counts, but, on the issue of grammar, unless the rules changed while I was away, it's (note again the contraction)cut and dried, so to speak. On the "bacon" issue, if we use the word as most other speakers of English do, he's also right but VLM seems to have issues other than language in mind so the issue, as opposed to the bacon, is less cut and dried.
I'm not defining bacon as being from a certain place. What I am saying is what we mean when we talk about bacon is not, in fact, motherfucking Roman "bacon". It is a salt and sugar cured smoked pork belly that is Southern in origin. I brought you in because this is Semiotics and that is your thing.
Assuming that using sugar in the curing process of bacon was in fact invented in the Southeastern US, this, as I said, adds a special property but that addition only justifies the claim as an hyperbole. The normal meaning of bacon does not specify that sugar be used in the curing (or for that matter, that it be made from pork belly, but that's another argument). What you are saying comes down to first the historical claim that salt and sugar cured bacon originates in the South and second that is the best bacon made and so, to your lights, the only one worth being called bacon. It's fine with me if you think that (I actually have a fondness both for lardon and for pancetta) but it doesn't justify a claim that bacon comes only from there.
originally posted by Brad Kane:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Brad Kane:
Thank you, professor. Let's also not forget that the monkey was incorrect about the origin of blt's. I'm going to savor this clean sweep.
Then I could argue that tomatoes came from the New World.
There's no argument there. Tomatoes did come from the New World.
originally posted by Brad Kane:
So, I just discovered that my block is bacon heaven. The North Country applewood smoked, Vande Rose applewood smoked and La Quercia country cured are all available across the street at Fairway, as are some others like Niman Ranch, Garrett County hickory smoked and more and on the corner is Schaller & Weber, with their great bacons. There will definitely be a big taste test soon.
originally posted by VLM:
The pictures that were posted were of what is salt and sugar cured and smoked. The bacon of the south. That is what people mean when they use the word bacon. Not jowl, not loin, but belly. Made like that.
So what Brad means when he says "bacon" and what I mean when I say "bacon" are, in fact, southern bacon. We most assuredly do not mean salt or brine cured pork from Roman times. I don't see how this line of conjecture is at all controversial.
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by SFJoe:
"Its", for crying out loud.
. That is what people mean when they use the word bacon. Not jowl, not loin, but belly. Made like that.
So what Brad means when he says "bacon" and what I mean when I say "bacon" are, in fact, southern bacon. We most assuredly do not mean salt or brine cured pork from Roman times. I don't see how this line of conjecture is at all controversial.
I'm not sure on what basis you declare what people mean when they say bacon. Usually dictionaries do this. Certainly, the bacon you refer to is the one I am most familiar with. I'm also most familiar with Victorian novels. But I don't use the word novel to refer only to the Victorian ones.
originally posted by VLM: You'd pay $15 for something my grandmother made for lunch..
originally posted by VLM:
My point is that NYers fetishize Southern food.
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Brad Kane:
My point is that NYers fetishize Southern food. You'd pay $15 for something my grandmother made for lunch.
She had a luncheonette in NYC recently? Cool!
originally posted by Cole Kendall:
Bacon in Victorian LiteratureInspired by Prof. Loesberg I offer the following from The Macdermots of Ballycloran by Anthony Trollope:
Soon after dusk Meg returned; she had in the folds of her gown a loaf of bread and a very small piece of bacon, and it was evident to Thady that whatever had become of Joe and the other, they had not forgotten him or their promise to provide him with some better food than the lumpers which sufficed for Andy McEvoy and his daughter.
My question: would VLM recognize this substance as bacon? And does his grandmother have a recipe for lumpers?
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by VLM:
That is what people mean when they use the word bacon. Not jowl, not loin, but belly. Made like that.
So what Brad means when he says "bacon" and what I mean when I say "bacon" are, in fact, southern bacon. We most assuredly do not mean salt or brine cured pork from Roman times. I don't see how this line of conjecture is at all controversial.
I'm not sure on what basis you declare what people mean when they say bacon. Usually dictionaries do this. Certainly, the bacon you refer to is the one I am most familiar with. I'm also most familiar with Victorian novels. But I don't use the word novel to refer only to the Victorian ones.
originally posted by Cole Kendall:
Bacon in Victorian Literature
My question: would VLM recognize this substance as bacon? And does his grandmother have a recipe for lumpers?
originally posted by Rahsaan:
originally posted by VLM:
My point is that NYers fetishize Southern food.
I thought your point was that Northerners don't give the South proper credit for bacon. Or was that just Brad not giving enough credit.
Either way, when you live in NYC you can indulge many fetishes without leaving the city. That's why people move here.
originally posted by Tom Glasgow:
originally posted by VLM:
My point is that NYers fetishize Southern food. You'd pay $15 for something my grandmother made for lunch.
She had a luncheonette in NYC recently? Cool!
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by VLM:
That is what people mean when they use the word bacon. Not jowl, not loin, but belly. Made like that.
So what Brad means when he says "bacon" and what I mean when I say "bacon" are, in fact, southern bacon. We most assuredly do not mean salt or brine cured pork from Roman times. I don't see how this line of conjecture is at all controversial.
I'm not sure on what basis you declare what people mean when they say bacon. Usually dictionaries do this. Certainly, the bacon you refer to is the one I am most familiar with. I'm also most familiar with Victorian novels. But I don't use the word novel to refer only to the Victorian ones.
Following Fodor, Kripe, and Cummings, the content of the thought "bacon" contains bacon as I described it, not some Roman salt pork or cured loin.
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by VLM:
That is what people mean when they use the word bacon. Not jowl, not loin, but belly. Made like that.
So what Brad means when he says "bacon" and what I mean when I say "bacon" are, in fact, southern bacon. We most assuredly do not mean salt or brine cured pork from Roman times. I don't see how this line of conjecture is at all controversial.
I'm not sure on what basis you declare what people mean when they say bacon. Usually dictionaries do this. Certainly, the bacon you refer to is the one I am most familiar with. I'm also most familiar with Victorian novels. But I don't use the word novel to refer only to the Victorian ones.
Following Fodor, Kripe, and Cummings, the content of the thought "bacon" contains bacon as I described it, not some Roman salt pork or cured loin.
Note Cole's first question. If your answer to it is that you would call the substance bacon, then the claim above is simply false. Your thought of bacon must contain more than your more argumentative description of the definition. If your answer to Cole's first question is "no," then I think it must be said that you are no longer quite speaking English.