some great bottles and one terribly closed, horribly misunderstood trainwreck

Not Ian, Mark! LOL, where is my head this morning... Too many diaper changes.

Josh, an 04 Romirasco at the winery was one of the absolute highlights of a trip to Piedmont two years ago. Awesome wine. Aldo Conterno have become too modern with many of their "lower" bottlings and the Chardonnay, but they seem to have the good sense to not mess with the Romirasco.
 
Yes, yes, yes, on Agrapart Mineral '04. Although, I find it to definitely be a little more sprightly than the Vilmart Stuff. A bottle of Bouchard Inflorescence '03 awaits me in New York, so I'll report back when I have that data point.

Yes, I used to work on a list that was written by the Wildmann regional brand manager, so I've served many a Potel. I have found some of them to be quite pooey-bretty. They're definitely a dirtier, denser style of Burgundy.
 
I find the comparison with Vilmart odd. The Agrapart sees less time in (neutral) oak, and with much lower dosage than Vilmart. I like the wine, just don't understand the comparison. Also different vineyards.

Disclosure: I import Vilmart into Singapore.
 
So, just poured the Ganevat I opened last night. Much improved; drinkable. Quite fecal / bretty on pouring, but also fruit and no pickle juice. Don't know that I like it much, but I don't think it's flawed. Probably, I just don't have a clue what's going on here.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
Bubbles being present doesn't usually mean "going off in bottle". It usually means there was minimal racking, which also accounts for the reduction. Double decanting might be helpful.
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A slightly spritzy mouthfeel that goes away overnight or with decanting is frequently high dissolved CO2 at bottling, agreed.

This was not, this seemed to clearly be a referment and was much worse on day two.

Like I said, one of the most flawed wines I've ever had. I've had some 08 Ganevat (don't recall right now which bottlings) and this didn't resemble those in any way.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Josh, an 04 Romirasco at the winery was one of the absolute highlights of a trip to Piedmont two years ago. Awesome wine. Aldo Conterno have become too modern with many of their "lower" bottlings and the Chardonnay, but they seem to have the good sense to not mess with the Romirasco.
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Very much agree - the low end bottlings are of zero interest but the Barolos, particularly the 3 crus, are some of the best wines being made in Piedmont at the moment for my tastes.
 
originally posted by Yixin:
I find the comparison with Vilmart odd. The Agrapart sees less time in (neutral) oak, and with much lower dosage than Vilmart. I like the wine, just don't understand the comparison. Also different vineyards.

Disclosure: I import Vilmart into Singapore.
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Perhaps that was a reach for a comparison, I just meant that it was similarly a drier, richer style that showed the house's imprint for sure but still showed great minerality, depth and complexity and that I liked similarly...
 
originally posted by Josh Beck:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Josh, an 04 Romirasco at the winery was one of the absolute highlights of a trip to Piedmont two years ago. Awesome wine. Aldo Conterno have become too modern with many of their "lower" bottlings and the Chardonnay, but they seem to have the good sense to not mess with the Romirasco.
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Very much agree - the low end bottlings are of zero interest but the Barolos, particularly the 3 crus, are some of the best wines being made in Piedmont at the moment for my tastes.
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Really? The best in all of the Piemonte?

Can't agree with you there. Perhaps you like a bit more oak than I.

Don't get the "lower" bottling dislike. I like when they lay off the gas pedal a bit, like in the Dolcetto for instance.

The current head of Aldo Conterno has stated that he prefers to drink Barolo less than 11 years old. Is 10 year old Barolo "great" Barolo? If you are making wines for consumption within 10 years, is that great Barolo?
 
My notes say they use "new 228 liter Allier/Vosges barriques" for the Il Favot Nebbiolo, Bussia d'Or Chardonnay and Conca Tre Pile Barbera, while the Barolos all age in botti, so I came away with the impression that there was a divide between the botti'd Barolos and the barrique'd rest. Of course, they can use botti and still taste modern (or ensure drinkability in < 10yrs) for other reasons (and they vinify the Barolos in stainless steel). But I definitely got no sense of salient oak from the 04 Romirasco and 05 Cicala, 05 Colonnello and 05 regular (the only ones I've tasted), whereas the buttery oak turned me off the Chard for sure. Yes, the Dolcetto is only stainless steel, but I was disappointed with the overripe 08 a few weeks ago (unsurprising, you said), so maybe the gas pedal was depressed there too (at least in 08).
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
My notes say they use "new 228 liter Allier/Vosges barriques" for the Il Favot Nebbiolo, Bussia d'Or Chardonnay and Conca Tre Pile Barbera, while the Barolos all age in botti, so I came away with the impression that there was a divide between the botti'd Barolos and the barrique'd rest. Of course, they can use botti and still taste modern (or ensure drinkability in < 10yrs) for other reasons (and they vinify the Barolos in stainless steel). But I definitely got no sense of salient oak from the 04 Romirasco and 05 Cicala, 05 Colonnello and 05 regular (the only ones I've tasted), whereas the buttery oak turned me off the Chard for sure. Yes, the Dolcetto is only stainless steel, but I was disappointed with the only vintage (08) I tasted (unsurprising, you said).
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Huh. Your salient oak and my salient oak must differ. The great days of Aldo Conterno I believe to have ended with the end of the 1980s.
 
This:

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Is interesting and of note to this conversation, especially the part where they say the transfer goes from botti to stainless to bottles, not stainless to botti, and this...

"'One of our challenges is keeping the barrels perfectly clean, so each year we recondition the casks by scraping out the part of the oak that has been in contact with the wine.' This practice explains the presence of new oak
flavors in the wines when they are young."
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
We had a bottle of the 97 Granbussia at a restaurant in Alba and it was a big and expensive disappointment, surly and closed.
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Right. And there is somebody in the thread saying that that is the BEST in ALL of the Piemonte, and I would, you know, disagree.

1988, 1989, sure, I'm with you.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
This:

Loading…

www.thesortingtable.com

Is interesting and of note to this conversation, especially the part where they say the transfer goes from botti to stainless to bottles, not stainless to botti, and this...

"'One of our challenges is keeping the barrels perfectly clean, so each year we recondition the casks by scraping out the part of the oak that has been in contact with the wine.' This practice explains the presence of new oak
flavors in the wines when they are young."
Click to expand...

This is fascinating.

Sometimes when my wife and I drink a Barolo, she frowns and states it has too much new oak flavor. I was puzzled because I thought the wine we were drinking was aged in large botti. It makes more sense now.

In the other thread about wine aged in oak, no one mentions the flavors added from the microbes that thrive in wood barrels. Brett, pediococcus, lactobacillus, and others love wood, and definitely add their own flavors. Part of the goût de terroir. Well, the terroir part is arguable, but definitely some goût.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
Really? The best in all of the Piemonte?

Can't agree with you there. Perhaps you like a bit more oak than I.

Don't get the "lower" bottling dislike. I like when they lay off the gas pedal a bit, like in the Dolcetto for instance.

The current head of Aldo Conterno has stated that he prefers to drink Barolo less than 11 years old. Is 10 year old Barolo "great" Barolo? If you are making wines for consumption within 10 years, is that great Barolo?
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Not the best, but among. And re: the 97 - I'm not a fan of 97 in Piemonte at all. The first really hot vintage there and a lot of the wines are baked and lack freshness and were acidulated poorly so they have a tangy kool-aid finish. I've not had any 97 A Conterno but have been a fan of the 96,98,99,00 I've opened.

But I think that since 04 they're doing even better. I would be wildly surprised if the Colonello, Cicala and Romirasco weren't 30 year wines at least. And I've seen the notes on oak, and heard the same from some folks, but I've yet to encounter a bottle that I thought showed much in the way of oak. I'm not completely oak phobic but I prefer it not to show to any great degree, even in youth. I'd say many Vietti bottlings show far more oak, for instance.

Re: the lower bottlings - I haven't bought a bottle of dolcetto in 5+ years. I was more referring to the Barbera, Il Favot and Chardonnay which are oaky abominations IMHO.

Opinions are sure to vary but like I said, I think the 04-06 are great wines and AMONG the best these days. Others who I think are killing it at the moment are Cappellano, Cavallotto, F Rinaldi, G Rinaldi, G Mascarello, and at least in 04/05, Giacosa. I've had really mixed experiences with G Conterno lately with some horribly overripe, stewy, pruney messes, and I'm too sick of bretty B Mascarello to buy more of them of late...

One other thought - the winemaker said he prefers to drink Barolo young. He didn't say that he makes them to not age, and I think it's fallacious to suggest that wines HAVE to be undrinkable in youth to age well...

Anyways, all that drivel aside, back to harvest...
 
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