some great bottles and one terribly closed, horribly misunderstood trainwreck

originally posted by Josh Beck:
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
Really? The best in all of the Piemonte?

Can't agree with you there. Perhaps you like a bit more oak than I.

Don't get the "lower" bottling dislike. I like when they lay off the gas pedal a bit, like in the Dolcetto for instance.

The current head of Aldo Conterno has stated that he prefers to drink Barolo less than 11 years old. Is 10 year old Barolo "great" Barolo? If you are making wines for consumption within 10 years, is that great Barolo?
Click to expand...

Not the best, but among. And re: the 97 - I'm not a fan of 97 in Piemonte at all. The first really hot vintage there and a lot of the wines are baked and lack freshness and were acidulated poorly so they have a tangy kool-aid finish. I've not had any 97 A Conterno but have been a fan of the 96,98,99,00 I've opened.

But I think that since 04 they're doing even better. I would be wildly surprised if the Colonello, Cicala and Romirasco weren't 30 year wines at least. And I've seen the notes on oak, and heard the same from some folks, but I've yet to encounter a bottle that I thought showed much in the way of oak. I'm not completely oak phobic but I prefer it not to show to any great degree, even in youth. I'd say many Vietti bottlings show far more oak, for instance.

Re: the lower bottlings - I haven't bought a bottle of dolcetto in 5+ years. I was more referring to the Barbera, Il Favot and Chardonnay which are oaky abominations IMHO.

Opinions are sure to vary but like I said, I think the 04-06 are great wines and AMONG the best these days. Others who I think are killing it at the moment are Cappellano, Cavallotto, F Rinaldi, G Rinaldi, G Mascarello, and at least in 04/05, Giacosa. I've had really mixed experiences with G Conterno lately with some horribly overripe, stewy, pruney messes, and I'm too sick of bretty B Mascarello to buy more of them of late...

One other thought - the winemaker said he prefers to drink Barolo young. He didn't say that he makes them to not age, and I think it's fallacious to suggest that wines HAVE to be undrinkable in youth to age well...

Anyways, all that drivel aside, back to harvest...
Click to expand...

Cavallotto is slipping. Francesco Rinaldi is inconsistent. How do you feel about Giacosa in 2006 (trick question)? Bretty B. Mascarello is probably more a function of stateside storage.

Not the winemaker, but the owner. Nobody said that wines have to be undrinkable in youth to age well, so please don't imply that this was said. I asked if you thought a 10 year old Barolo was great Barolo? I'd actually like to know the answer, because it will say a lot about what you expect from a Barolo. I would answer, no, 10 year old Barolo is not great Barolo. Doesn't matter how great it might be in the future. There is no greatness showing as greatness at 10 years. Who is drinking all their 2001's right now to prove me wrong? Apparently, that is what they would suggest at Aldo Conterno.

I always like it when I guy makes a super far reaching comment like "are some of the best wines being made in Piedmont at the moment" when that same guy admits to not even really knowing what the wines were like previous to said moment, and then starts saying the conversation is drivel when put out to defend those views. If you don't want to defend what you are saying, don't put it out there. I have had Aldo Conterno bottlings back to 1974, and recently. Across that arc, the current wines strike me as a pastiche of what once was, and more obvious.

From my viewpoint, the Piemonte is a very large place. It includes zones like Carema, Lessona, Gattinara, the Colli Tortonesi, and Barbaresco. And it includes grape varieties like Dolcetto. Are you saying that you haven't bought a bottle of ANY Dolcetto in 5 years? Really? That would be a true shame. The Piemonte speaks just as clearly, if not more so, through a Dolcetto as it does through the wines of Nebbiolo. Have you had Flavio Roddolo Dolcetto recently? Brovia "Solatio"?

Lastly, with the oak thing, I mean, I don't know what further to say except that the oak is certainly apparent to me, and not apologized for by the cantina.
 
So, a disinterested plea for moderation. When Josh called the Conterno wines among the best being made in Piedmont, he qualified his statement by writing '... for my tastes.' When he wrote 'drivel,' it appeared he was referring self-deprecatingly to his own comments.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
So, a disinterested plea for moderation. When Josh called the Conterno wines among the best being made in Piedmont, he qualified his statement by writing '... for my tastes.' When he wrote 'drivel,' it appeared he was referring self-deprecatingly to his own comments.
Click to expand...
I think there is a basic impedance mismatch between Josh's comment (which seems casually tossed-off to me) and Levi's response (which seems very studied and detailed to me).
 
Levi, at what age (in your opinion) does the greatness of Barolo begin to become transparent? I'm sure this is producer-dependent largely, but can you make any generalizations?

I'm not calling you on the floor, just would love to get your sage opinion as someone, who, you know, has drank a lot of great, old Barolo.

I have enjoyed some pretty soaring '96s over the last year, so for me, I think it's about 15+ years. But I am a very young man with a very small wallet who has only worked at very humble establishments.
 
originally posted by Morgan Harris:
Levi, at what age (in your opinion) does the greatness of Barolo begin to become transparent? I'm sure this is producer-dependent largely, but can you make any generalizations?

I'm not calling you on the floor, just would love to get your sage opinion as someone, who, you know, has drank a lot of great, old Barolo.

I have enjoyed some pretty soaring '96s over the last year, so for me, I think it's about 15+ years. But I am a very young man with a very small wallet who has only worked at very humble establishments.
Click to expand...

A great Barolo is not a sapling. Nor is it a green leaf. If you walk into a forest row where the lane ahead of you is covered in fallen leaves, then you smell something of great Barolo. The colors should be yellowing, even brown, and you may find yourself turned from the glare of the clear sun through the bare bracken.

There are many great wines from 96, but it is with the 93s today that you start to drink great Barolo.
 
originally posted by Saul Mutchnick:
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
For my taste, the Yankees are doing some of the best work in baseball at the moment.
Click to expand...

A very supportable position, though over what time period do you measure 'best work'?
Click to expand...

Sure it is a supportable position, except that for the Yankees the season is OVAH.
 
My apologies to all the yankees fans out there, but:

Yankees Suck.

Unfortunately for me, the Mets suck more (they must be the McLaren Vale shiraz of the baseball world).
 
Levi,

Not sure what I did to put a bug in your butt... we all have our tastes and I was just sharing my thoughts.

Leaving issues of our subjective tastes (which probably aren't as disparate as you think) aside, wine is not bretty because of storage, but rather winemaking, and I'm sure you know that. Suggesting that people cellar bretty bottles colder is still a strategy for having bretty wines in your future. Whether or not that is a problem is of course subjective.
 
originally posted by Josh Beck:
Levi,

Not sure what I did to put a bug in your butt... we all have our tastes and I was just sharing my thoughts.

Leaving issues of our subjective tastes (which probably aren't as disparate as you think) aside, wine is not bretty because of storage, but rather winemaking, and I'm sure you know that. Suggesting that people cellar bretty bottles colder is still a strategy for having bretty wines in your future. Whether or not that is a problem is of course subjective.
Click to expand...

Well, Josh, the thing is, I don't agree with you.

It is a debate, not a bug up my butt.

Probably it would better for you to debate the merits of the argument you are making, but whatever.

How long is that future you speak of? Do you think it might come sooner with warmer storage?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top