Charging the Weinert windmills, again (yawn)

Oswaldo Costa

Oswaldo Costa
Swiss enologist Hubert Weber took over in 1995. Starting in the late 90s, alcohol levels have been rising in Weinert wines, despite the winery’s traditionalist reputation. Perhaps the result of global warming, or from keeping up with the Catenas, maybe both. Some time in the early 2000s, the Rubicon into overripe terrain appears to have been crossed, but there's no capital for NFO.

In the Weinert hierarchy, the Gran Vino is second only to the Estrella (produced in top years) and, compared to the varietals, consistently sports an extra half degree of alcohol, regardless of vintage (if labels are to be believed). All vintages of the Gran Vino since 1999 have been 40% malbec, 40% cabernet sauvignon, and 20% merlot. Vines are ungrafted and planted on sandy soils; the malbec vines are an impressive 60 to 110 years old; the others, between 15 and 45 years old. Grapes are hand-picked, yeasts are “selected,” wines are vinified in concrete and aged for 3 to 5 years in used French oak casks (2000 to 6000 liters). No fining or cold stabilization, some filtration. Statistics on the growing ripeness of picking are unavailable.

2000 Cavas de Weinert Gran Vino Lujan de Cujo 14.0%
Plums, barnyard, leather, tar, dishrag, poop and oak. Decent acidity and appealing tannins. Very Bordelais, and easy to drink. Pleasurable, though I prefer the straight 2000 Malbec.

2002 Cavas de Weinert Gran Vino Lujan de Cujo 14.5%
Jammy, to the point of blocking any aroma other than generic black fruits. Adequate acidity, possibly added, tastes distinct. But maybe it’s the jamminess that makes all acidity taste like it doesn’t quite belong. In short, thumbs down.

The first tasted like old-fashioned Argentine wine, inspired by Bordeaux; the second like generic modern Argentine wine, inspired by Coca Cola. Over ripeness makes varieties converge: a 14.5% pinot tastes like a 14.5% malbec, and everything tastes like Mammonade.
 
The first tasted like old-fashioned Argentine wine, inspired by Bordeaux; the second like generic modern Argentine wine, inspired by Coca Cola/
I haven't had the wines but the phrasing is magnificent. Well done.
 
I have yet to have an Argentine malbec that I thought remarkable.
Some are good, some very good - but none have lit me up.
Some Cahors, OTOH . . .
Best, Jim
 
I conscientiously tried a lot of Argentine Malbecs a few years ago, when they were being highly touted, and also couldn't find the charm. Part of what makes Clos de Roche Blanch Cot seem like such a miracle.
 
There are a couple I have liked OK. Back in the 90s, I used to like Weinert and Navarro Correas. More recently, one called Mendoza, I think, was a decent wine. Mostly, though, not my cup of oak.
 
In the spirit of Joe Dressner's infamous Mollydooker study from years gone by, I have over the past few nights been paying homage to the master by periodically sampling a bottle of 2009 Trapiche Malbec "Oak Cask". One day one, it was barely drinkable, overt oakiness almost obscuring the briery jamminess of the froot with a lactic finish; on day three, it had developed a touch of VA in the nose with the oak better integrated and an overall glossiness that was impossible to ignore. Since half the wine remains, I will update this report with further details as they become apparent.

Mark Lipton
(drinking the bad stuff so that you don't have to)
 
I've said this before, but, because of the fact that the Argentine domestic market is relatively undiscerning (given the fact that import tariffs on wine are absurd, not because they wouldn't like to be) and the marketing phenomenon of Malbec stateside, the point chasers truly lead the way.

I would love to try older Weinert though, as I've heard a couple of people I respect a lot talk of it in reverential tones. It may have gone the same way as restrained California Cabernet though post-sale in the '97/'98 vintage.

I do remember a super disappointing (completely hollow) 2000-ish Catena Zapata about a year ago that my chef had brought back from the estate and cellared (in a euro-cave type thing).

Ben Marco is actually quite good, come to think of it, but I've only had young examples.

They do all seem to be competently made from a technical standpoint, even if they're soul-less...there's a statement sure to raise some heckles (or is it hackles?).
 
originally posted by Morgan Harris:
I've said this before, but, because of the fact that the Argentine domestic market is relatively undiscerning (given the fact that import tariffs on wine are absurd, not because they wouldn't like to be) and the marketing phenomenon of Malbec stateside, the point chasers truly lead the way.

I would love to try older Weinert though, as I've heard a couple of people I respect a lot talk of it in reverential tones. It may have gone the same way as restrained California Cabernet though post-sale in the '97/'98 vintage.

I do remember a super disappointing (completely hollow} 2000-ish Catena Zapata about a year ago that my chef had brought back from the estate and cellared (in a euro-cave type thing).

Ben Marco is actually quite good, come to think of it, but I've only had young examples.

They do all seem to be competently made from a technical standpoint, even if they're soul-less...there's a statement sure to raise some heckles (or is it hackles?).

About six or seven years ago, I had a '77 Weinert (Estrella I believe) that certainly convinced me that Malbec had real potential in Argentina. Alas, more recent bottles of Weinert haven't come close and I quit looking. From what I have read, I think the comparison to Napa's transformation from the '60s-'70s to the present may be apt.

On the other hand, I recently had a fantastic and quite reasonably priced '09 Cot VV by Delecheneau (La Grange Tiphaine). The wonders that continue to emerge from the Loire amaze me.
 
From time to time Chambers Street stocks wine from Carmelo Patti, as does K&L in SF. Best current Argentine wine I've had (although he ages for a while in mostly neutral oak and then in bottle, so current release Malbec is 2006 and Cab is 2004). Real, artisanal wine.
 
originally posted by Jim Hanlon:
From time to time Chambers Street stocks wine from Carmelo Patti, as does K&L in SF. Best current Argentine wine I've had (although he ages for a while in mostly neutral oak and then in bottle, so current release Malbec is 2006 and Cab is 2004). Real, artisanal wine.

Well remembered; he's respected by people whose opinions I'm more inclined to trust, but the only one I've tried was so-so late last year:

2005 Carmelo Patti Malbec Lujan de Cujo 13.5%
Plum aroma with a metallic edge and some iodine. Ripe, but not egregiously. Medium tannins and some coffee in the mouth. Acidity adequate before food, but deficient in the face of fat. At least, this appears to have the merit of not having been acidulated. Became quite enjoyable when I stopped analyzing and just let it flow. Pleasant, and far better than the regular fare of bionic Malbec, but still not something I’d seek out.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
I conscientiously tried a lot of Argentine Malbecs a few years ago, when they were being highly touted, and also couldn't find the charm. Part of what makes Clos de Roche Blanch Cot seem like such a miracle.

CRB seems like a brother from another planet compared to what comes out of Argentina these days. Still, I remember some interesting Weinert's from the 80's long time ago...
 
originally posted by Jeff Connell:
originally posted by Mike Klein:
I recently had a fantastic and quite reasonably priced '09 Cot VV by Delecheneau (La Grange Tiphaine).
Hey, c'mon man, keep it down about La Grange Tiphaine.

Ah, duly noted. But I think everyone on this board is within the circle of trust.
 
TN: 2003 Bodega Weinert Gran Vino.

Last bottle and quite exceptional. Good cork, opened and decanted one hour, slight trace of sediment.

Little brick on the rim but not much change in 2 yrs. Not so bright looking though.
Aromas fill the room on opening, not so meaty but noticed more oak this time around which is strange?
Still shows some tannins, earthy but nice balance. Berries, plum, cherry, overall quite dry and remains "old world" style. Fruit bomb folks will not like this one!
Day 2 some meaty tones have developed, more ripe on the finish. Great with pork tenderloin with a sun-dried tomato crusting.
 
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