Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
Don't play at jejeune. There are better and worse wines to drink.
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Beaujolais Nouveau
- Thread starter BJ
- Start date
Don't play at jejeune. There are better and worse wines to drink.
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originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by Yixin:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
I'm a little puzzled. If one has such good and venerable vines why not make something more durable or interesting than Nouveau?originally posted by Michael K.:
...One parcel only, composed by 90% of vines planted in 1904, and some replanting. Cyril says he doesn't know of an older parcel of gamay in the region, and we are very excited he's making his nouveau out of it....
Why not? Wine is meant to be drunk.
Don't play at jejeune. There are better and worse wines to drink.
i'm not going to speak for yixin, but a couple of thoughts:
1. since i have been once again forced to constantly flit between europe and the brave new world, i have been struggling to maintain my safety blanket of ignoring the appalling condition of the european wines i find in the us (and almost everything from outside of the fatregion that i encounter here). i mean, seriously, 99% of the time, i feel obliged to ask, who gang raped this in transit, and why, and where the fuck did you put the vomitorium?
2. 99.3% of motherfuckers who cut their wine teeth on teh interwebs are going to open their 1-2 prize bottles of laid away 'treasure' at their peak of closed for business and wonder why the fuck they ever bothered.
in the circs, is it any wonder that a producer might want to make something that can reach the consumer and be appreciated in something approaching the form that he or she had in mind when it was bottled?
fb.
Levi Dalton
Levi Dalton
I found the 2011 Nouveau from Domaine Joel Rochette to be quite good.
Don't play at jejeune. There are better and worse wines to drink.
I'm not. I don't drink much Nouveau but sometimes one grabs me and has something to say behind the chord of carbonic maceration. It could be a whisper of summer, sans soufre, especially when tasted from cask, or a growl of terroir, as might be the case with this Nouveau. Why shouldn't a producer aim for that if he or she so chooses?
There's no 2010 Cot from CRB - it's all gone into the Pif, a wine I'm immensely fond of and very proud to be importing.
Or, in fewer words, I don't think Nouveau is an intrinsically 'bad' (or uninteresting) genre, nor do I understand the imposition of a univariate scale.
originally posted by fatboy:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by Yixin:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
I'm a little puzzled. If one has such good and venerable vines why not make something more durable or interesting than Nouveau?originally posted by Michael K.:
...One parcel only, composed by 90% of vines planted in 1904, and some replanting. Cyril says he doesn't know of an older parcel of gamay in the region, and we are very excited he's making his nouveau out of it....
Why not? Wine is meant to be drunk.
Don't play at jejeune. There are better and worse wines to drink.
i'm not going to speak for yixin, but a couple of thoughts:
1. since i have been once again forced to constantly flit between europe and the brave new world, i have been struggling to maintain my safety blanket of ignoring the appalling condition of the european wines i find in the us (and almost everything from outside of the fatregion that i encounter here). i mean, seriously, 99% of the time, i feel obliged to ask, who gang raped this in transit, and why, and where the fuck did you put the vomitorium?
2. 99.3% of motherfuckers who cut their wine teeth on teh interwebs are going to open their 1-2 prize bottles of laid away 'treasure' at their peak of closed for business and wonder why the fuck they ever bothered.
in the circs, is it any wonder that a producer might want to make something that can reach the consumer and be appreciated in something approaching the form that he or she had in mind when it was bottled?
fb.
Amen bro. I'm 100 points on all that.
Levi Dalton
Levi Dalton
Funny that anyone would think of Nouveau as a trivial category, when in fact it has become the dominant emerging idea of our drinking era. Around the world people have an idea of a wine that is more Real, or more Natural, and that wine, when you think about it, is sorta-kinda or wants to be Nouveau.
It is only in the Beaujolais, where it started, that this concept for wine is seen as the carpenter's son, and not recognized as having been prophetic.
I've been thinking about this idea as the pre-conscious wine ideal, but nobody wants to talk that lingo with me, which is fine.
It is only in the Beaujolais, where it started, that this concept for wine is seen as the carpenter's son, and not recognized as having been prophetic.
I've been thinking about this idea as the pre-conscious wine ideal, but nobody wants to talk that lingo with me, which is fine.
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
I am happy to side with "Old School" versus "Real Natural", no matter what the marketing department has to say. When I consider the mysteries offered by the right grape from the right place handled by the right people, I can't put the funky, lifted, fizzy juice in the same category (...a few exceptions need to be granted, I'm sure).
Levi Dalton
Levi Dalton
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
I am happy to side with "Old School" versus "Real Natural", no matter what the marketing department has to say. When I consider the mysteries offered by the right grape from the right place handled by the right people, I can't put the funky, lifted, fizzy juice in the same category (...a few exceptions need to be granted, I'm sure).
Are you prepared to wait for Old School to come around from callow and indifferent youth, through grouchy middle age, to benevolent old man? I think you, Jeff Grossman, are prepared to wait. But there are a lot of people who are not. Many would like to drink a wine tonight. Some of them are producers. Some of those are not funded to experiment with site and clone marriages by monastic orders.
How will we make the wine accessible AND layered?? Through more oxygenation? Through less? How about nouveau AND old vines as the answer? Because that wouldn't be a bad answer.
The economics often determine the morality. You have people dreaming of an ideal wine that is untouched by man. Touch ups cost money. People are looking for the not cynical. The not-industrial, the not-proven, the not-handled. There is a search for a whisper or a feeling. There is a thought that the simple, the child -like even, is closer to this not. This is the Romantic movement after the Enlightenment all over again. Rudolf Steiner is William Blake with less talent for rhyme.
Oswaldo Costa
Oswaldo Costa
So true.
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
Folks are entitled to want what they want, of course.originally posted by Levi Dalton:
Are you prepared to wait for Old School to come around from callow and indifferent youth, through grouchy middle age, to benevolent old man? I think you, Jeff Grossman, are prepared to wait. But there are a lot of people who are not. Many would like to drink a wine tonight. Some of them are producers. Some of those are not funded to experiment with site and clone marriages by monastic orders.
I think there is a confound in here: Wine is not Coke-Pepsi, which is the paradigm I think many folks have in their minds. There is no secret formula, there is no bulk manufacture, wine is not ready to drink at the moment it is packaged.
Wine for tonight is dolcetto or Buzet or txakolina.
Perhaps it is the case that in order to have one Beethoven we must endure listening to dozens of Spohrs.The economics often determine the morality. You have people dreaming of an ideal wine that is untouched by man. Touch ups cost money. People are looking for the not cynical. The not-industrial, the not-proven, the not-handled. There is a search for a whisper or a feeling. There is a thought that the simple, the child -like even, is closer to this not. This is the Romantic movement after the Enlightenment all over again. Rudolf Steiner is William Blake with less talent for rhyme.
What ever happened to that guy?originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Spohr
Levi Dalton
Levi Dalton
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
I think there is a confound in here: Wine is not Coke-Pepsi, which is the paradigm I think many folks have in their minds. There is no secret formula, there is no bulk manufacture, wine is not ready to drink at the moment it is packaged.
You really think that Cornelissen or Calek are aspiring to Pepsi aspirations and bulk manufacture? I don't. Instead, I think this head on misses the point I was making.
Wine for tonight is dolcetto...
I don't know which Dolcetto you guys are drinking that you think it is simple and open. That isn't the Dolcetto that I have been lifting. The Dolcetto I drink holds with a firm, cold grip, reminiscent of the grab associated with old Mariners.
Jonathan Loesberg
Jonathan Loesberg
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
I am happy to side with "Old School" versus "Real Natural", no matter what the marketing department has to say. When I consider the mysteries offered by the right grape from the right place handled by the right people, I can't put the funky, lifted, fizzy juice in the same category (...a few exceptions need to be granted, I'm sure).
Are you prepared to wait for Old School to come around from callow and indifferent youth, through grouchy middle age, to benevolent old man? I think you, Jeff Grossman, are prepared to wait. But there are a lot of people who are not. Many would like to drink a wine tonight. Some of them are producers. Some of those are not funded to experiment with site and clone marriages by monastic orders.
How will we make the wine accessible AND layered?? Through more oxygenation? Through less? How about nouveau AND old vines as the answer? Because that wouldn't be a bad answer.
The economics often determine the morality. You have people dreaming of an ideal wine that is untouched by man. Touch ups cost money. People are looking for the not cynical. The not-industrial, the not-proven, the not-handled. There is a search for a whisper or a feeling. There is a thought that the simple, the child -like even, is closer to this not. This is the Romantic movement after the Enlightenment all over again. Rudolf Steiner is William Blake with less talent for rhyme.
And about as much talent for sequential thought. Blake without embodiment is babble. And so is Steiner. This is not a criticism of natural wine.
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
Those guys, no. Is it your opinion that Munjebel is a Nouveau?originally posted by Levi Dalton:
You really think that Cornelissen or Calek are aspiring to Pepsi aspirations and bulk manufacture? I don't. Instead, I think this head on misses the point I was making.originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
I think there is a confound in here: Wine is not Coke-Pepsi, which is the paradigm I think many folks have in their minds. There is no secret formula, there is no bulk manufacture, wine is not ready to drink at the moment it is packaged.
Take a step down from Mariners to simple seamen and you can drink them sooner. (It also was just an example.)I don't know which Dolcetto you guys are drinking that you think it is simple and open. That isn't the Dolcetto that I have been lifting. The Dolcetto I drink holds with a firm, cold grip, reminiscent of the grab associated with old Mariners.Wine for tonight is dolcetto...
Levi Dalton
Levi Dalton
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Those guys, no. Is it your opinion that Munjebel is a Nouveau?originally posted by Levi Dalton:
You really think that Cornelissen or Calek are aspiring to Pepsi aspirations and bulk manufacture? I don't. Instead, I think this head on misses the point I was making.originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
I think there is a confound in here: Wine is not Coke-Pepsi, which is the paradigm I think many folks have in their minds. There is no secret formula, there is no bulk manufacture, wine is not ready to drink at the moment it is packaged.
I think more of the Cornelissen Lamoresca, the straight Nero d'Avola, or the Susucaru.