gouges

the only 95s I have left (I confess I didn't buy many) are roumier and m-g so I'm comfortable waiting on them. I have many more 96s and I remain convinced that the wines that were good when they were young (as opposed to just being tasty, which some wines on the jammier side were although I wouldn't be particularly interested in them now) will mature beautifully - they just haven't yet. Sort of like the 88s, which I did taste quite a bit young and so had faith they would emerge as butterflies and for the most part they have (or are still waiting).
 
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by Morgan Harris:
Has anyone found '95 red burgs really tired?

I had a Trapet G-C Village and Ganoux Pommard 1er Cru (don't know what plots it's blended from) recently and both of them were totally Wah-wah-wah....
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Are you sure that Gaunoux simply isn't ready yet? Gilman thinks that it's capable of going another 20+ years. I've got one bottle that I'll sacrifice in the name of scientific enquiry some day.

Mark Lipton
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Maybe it was Francois Gaunoux.
 
originally posted by .sasha:
Maybe it was Francois Gaunoux.
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Always possible that Morgan's was, but since Envoyer just sold a bunch of '95 Michel Gaunoux Pommard 1er this year, Occam's Razor suggests otherwise.

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by Filippo Mattia Ginanni:
In Situ
originally posted by .sasha:
I read from John Gilman that they now move wines by gravity rather than by pump.
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This is correct. And as Christian told me in 2008 when I first visited, the pump, by breaking the skins of the berries, was the main culprit of the so famous Gouges tannins. And I was told they were not happy with this results as their wines were too harsh (even for them). So there you go.
i drank
I will comment on the 2010s as I will be at the Domaine tomorrow.

Let me also add that the original structure of the cuverie is intact. They are still using the same old vats though now everything is by gravity and they can control temperature in them.

DISCLAIMER: Despite being very good wines I was never in love with Gouges because I hardly found some that was ready. Or somewhat secondary. Even the 1997s are so behind, it's not even funny. Masochism has to stop somewhere. I think what they are up to is more in line with my taste

PS. You gotta love fb! Posting to show lack of interest! Keep it going buddy!
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oh. i'm sorry. what i meant to say is that i'm really really so very fucking interested. i mean, 1997 red burgundy, dude. that's the shit. who couldn't be interested?

in re gouges, the 86 vaucrains is actually remarkably pretty as it sits at the moment. i'm enjoying it far more than the 85s from the same stash.

sure, it's blockier and chunkier in its structure, in the way the the 86s always have been, but it has very pretty, fresh fruit, and a core of cool / black / mineral savoriness that could even fool me into believing that there is decent terroir in nuits proper.

as ever, aside for a very brief period of precocity (the fall of 88?), this one has been as ugly as fuck for the vast majority of its life. of recent vintages, i think the 01 showed closest in its retarded developmental profile; as in 86, the 01 vaucrains was the only gouges i enjoyed at all on release. i was still a slut in the late 80s, so i only necked a few of the 86s as kids, but to my shame i ploughed through more than a case of the 01 in late 04 - early 05 or so, before it suddenly went all closed-and-ugly-tannins on me (i kid myself my increasing monomania is a kind of progression). anyway, for those who care about this kind of esoteric shit, based on these dodgy retrospective comparisons, my vague prognosis is that in 15 years or so, i'm optimistic that the 01 will come close... so get in line for your futures allocations now kids!

fb.
 
speaking of the future, it's good to know that the bright young things have it all nailed down once again. i can only hope that the new regime at gouges do as spankingly a good a job as those at lafon, chave, roumier, montille, etc. have done. - and that the pricing for these increasingly rare treasures doesn't get all out of whack when more and more n00bs descend.

fb.
 
originally posted by .sasha:

What has offended you in Germany lately, from 1996 ? Abtsberg Spatlese is flawlessly balanced.
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haart goldtröpfchen spät... fuck yeah.

fb.
 
originally posted by fatboy:
speaking of the future, it's good to know that the bright young things have it all nailed down once again. i can only hope that the new regime at gouges do as spankingly a good a job as those at lafon, chave, roumier, montille, etc. have done. - and that the pricing for these increasingly rare treasures doesn't get all out of whack when more and more n00bs descend.

fb.
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I am so glad you have big stashes of the right wines (as you define them above) and you have a ton of patience. I also am pretty sure you exactly nailed how the wines of the sons will evolve over he next 20 years just as you did for the wine of the fathers in the mid 80's.

It's so good for you and maybe for all those n00bs that are chasing the wines of those dumbasses of sons.

In this respect you could really enlighten us by laying down a number of producers, preferably of the old generation, whose prices are still reasonable.

In fb we trust!

Happy fucking New Year!
 
originally posted by Filippo Mattia Ginanni:
In this respect you could really enlighten us by laying down a number of producers, preferably of the old generation, whose prices are still reasonable.
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I'll second that emotion, though it may be wishful thinking.
 
originally posted by fatboy:
as ever, aside for a very brief period of precocity (the fall of 88?), this one has been as ugly as fuck for the vast majority of its life.
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Good wine does this?

I must be subscribed to the wrong publications.
 
originally posted by .sasha:

I must be subscribed to the wrong publications.
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sadly fatboy's quarterly hooch review and almanac does not offer refunds on its subscriptions.

fb
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by Filippo Mattia Ginanni:
In this respect you could really enlighten us by laying down a number of producers, preferably of the old generation, whose prices are still reasonable.
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I'll second that emotion, though it may be wishful thinking.
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In this respect, how do the assembled feel about Joseph Voillot?
 
fatboy's quarterly hooch review and almanac
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a pioneering wine and spirits publication which included sing-along inserts in the Xmas issue
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by Filippo Mattia Ginanni:
In this respect you could really enlighten us by laying down a number of producers, preferably of the old generation, whose prices are still reasonable.
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I'll second that emotion, though it may be wishful thinking.
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In this respect, how do the assembled feel about Joseph Voillot?
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I like Voillot wines very much, although I only started buying and drinking them with the 1999 vintage.
 
Re Voillot:It's another of those Domaine in which the young guns are trying very hard to screw things up. Only thing is this time around the dumbass is an in law.

Notwistanding the above attempts the wine are transparent and graceful. Fremiets and Rugiens do stand out especially in warmer years. The village wines are very nice and a cut above their status.

I can't comment on Older wines but I am sure there are Plenty of experts around here who are better suited than me.
 
I opened a '99 Voillot Caillerets recently, a backwards beast years away from offering anything. Definitely put these in the tough and structured camp. Not sure what's going on lately although the '05s were very impressive.
 
Filippo, we visited a few years ago and got perhaps a different impression from the son-in-law. He seemed traditionalist, uninterested in making the wines accessible earler, and intent on keeping prices accessible. He certainly didn't look like a young turk (more like Sancho Panza, paunchy and in his late 40s or early 50s), and is apparently a long time and respected teacher at the Beaune oenology school. Did you get this impression from visiting, or did it come from somebody else?
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Filippo, we visited a few years ago and got perhaps a different impression from the son-in-law. He seemed traditionalist, uninterested in making the wines accessible earler, and intent on keeping prices accessible. He certainly didn't look like a young turk (more like Sancho Panza, paunchy and in his late 40s or early 50s), and is apparently a long time and respected teacher at the Beaune oenology school. Did you get this impression from visiting, or did it come from somebody else?
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Ehmmmmmmmmm was just being sarcastic. I love Voillot wines and do agree with what you said above (I visited recently as well).

Someonelse may feel differently though, you know he's a young gun... :)
 
the only difference is that the son in law collects fruit into plastic containers rather than wooden baskets.
Wait, that's a different domaine.
Nevermind.
 
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