Nebbiolo Vecchio

V

Vincent Fritzsche

Vincent Fritzsche
Did anyone else respond the crazy nebbiolo Chambers offered a few days ago? I bought a variety and find myself unexpectedly intrigued about what they will be like. Dead? Great? Ok? I little bit of everything? Does anyone know more about where these all came from and who many of the producers are/were?
 
I admired the offering for a while but held off. I would expect them to be either very good (with occasional great ones) or very dead. I recommend pouring to taste right away, but only sip; if it's near death, the wine will oxidize away in 10 minutes, but if the wine is alive, it will "wake up" with a couple hours of air.

I don't know where Chambers got these from, nor do I know anything about the obscure houses. Paging Greg DP ?
 
Cantina Colli Novaresi: This was a cooperative with many members. I'm not sure if it still exists, it may well not. "Colli Novaresi" are the hills that encompass Ghemme, Fara, and Boca in the Alto Piemonte.

Produttori di Carema: Is the cooperative in Carema, and basically the other source for Carema besides Ferrando. They still make wine currently. I've had good luck with older bottles. But keep in mind that 64 and 74 are both relatively light, if respected, vintages. This coop has a tendency to chaptalize, I think. There used to be the red label bottlings (normale) and the white (riserva) bottlings back in that time frame.

Dessilani: This was the big producer of Fara in terms of volume for a long time. I was recently told that it no longer exists, owing to being involved in some sort of unlawful blending scandal. I've only had bottles from recent times, not from the olden days. They were likeable, I guess, but rough hewn.

Negri of course still makes wine in a somewhat oaked up style in Valtellina today. Good vineyards at play. I've never gone back to the 80s.

There are two producers with the name Nervi. As the mention is made of Spanna, I think that the offer is for Livio Nervi, which I don't think I've had. Luigi Nervi is the more famous Nervi.

Travaglini still produces today. Think of the the oddly shaped bottles and the high yield crops. I've never had a great bottle, but then I haven't gone that far back, either.

Vallana is of course the legend. Still in service, although not what it was. What it was - in regards to blend - being a subject of debate. "Campi Raudii" was the "rotten plain," where thousands of bodies were left to rot in the sun after a famous Roman bottle on the site. I've had quite a few old Vallana wines. Check brooklynguy's blog for a write up of a dinner I hosted. The Vallana back vintage wines are getting more expensive, and these are decent prices. But alas, there is no '55 vintage here.

The other producers I don't know myself, and would only be quoting Sheldon Wasserman on. I would suggest that if this is a subject you want to learn about, that you pick up a copy of Sheldon & Pauline Wasserman's "Italy's Noble Red Wines" 2nd Edition (I am unaware of a third). That is the bible for this sort of thing.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
Cantina Colli Novaresi: This was a cooperative with many members. I'm not sure if it still exists, it may well not. "Colli Novaresi" are the hills that encompass Ghemme, Fara, and Boca in the Alto Piemonte.
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They still exist.

Produttori di Carema: Is the cooperative in Carema, and basically the other source for Carema besides Ferrando. They still make wine currently. I've had good luck with older bottles. But keep in mind that 64 and 74 are both relatively light, if respected, vintages. This coop has a tendency to chaptalize, I think. There used to be the red label bottlings (normale) and the white (riserva) bottlings back in that time frame.
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I just had a '67 that was a good wine, well kept. Not a blockbuster, but nice stuff. I thought the first vintage of their carema dei carema (Riserva) was '74, but I might be wrong there.

Dessilani: This was the big producer of Fara in terms of volume for a long time. I was recently told that it no longer exists, owing to being involved in some sort of unlawful blending scandal. I've only had bottles from recent times, not from the olden days. They were likeable, I guess, but rough hewn.
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Dessilani was involved with the selling of fake amarone-bottles a couple of years ago that made a great scandal, being the great producer it once was. The selections from Fara are Caramino and Lochera. They are good honest wines. Back in the 60's bottles of Caramino was sold without mentioning Fara.

There are two producers with the name Nervi. As the mention is made of Spanna, I think that the offer is for Livio Nervi, which I don't think I've had. Luigi Nervi is the more famous Nervi.
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Luigi Nervi also made bottles labelled spanna, beside their Gattinara and other wines. Still did a few years ago - they were then named Coste delle Sesia spanna. They changed ownership early this year, so I don't know if it will still be produced.

Travaglini still produces today. Think of the the oddly shaped bottles and the high yield crops. I've never had a great bottle, but then I haven't gone that far back, either.
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I have had loads of older Travaglini with great luck. They are far better in quality than the stuff made today (that is still decent enough). I probably had the '64 Gattinara 8-10 times. All great bottles. '67 Numerata (their riserva) was tremendous some years ago. A '52 a month ago was tired, but still very good despite having lost all its colour.

The other producers I don't know myself, and would only be quoting Sheldon Wasserman on. I would suggest that if this is a subject you want to learn about, that you pick up a copy of Sheldon & Pauline Wasserman's "Italy's Noble Red Wines" 2nd Edition (I am unaware of a third). That is the bible for this sort of thing.
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Its great fun to read Wasserman. But the more wine I drink that he writes about in his books, the more I find I disagree with him. Many bottles where he writes negative notes I have found wonderful. And opposite.

Sorry I don't get this newsletter from Chambers. What other producers are available?
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
There is only about a third of the original offering left.
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Seems like a lot of rather middle-of-the-road producers like Berteletti, Borgo and Francoli. The latter have produced a couple of very good wines among mostly mediocre efforts. '67 is not among the better.

'79 is too late for Arturo Pelizzatti. By that time the firm was owned by Winefood. And the family probably had started on the making of Cantina ArPePe.

I see they have a Gattinara '78 from Nervi. If it is Luigi & Italo Nervi it should be interesting, but I have not tasted that vintage.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
where thousands of bodies were left to rot in the sun after a famous Roman bottle on the site.
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Wow, sounds like one hell of a bottle. I mean, I knew the Romans made wine, but damn.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
Ask for help, receive nothing. Give someone an opportunity to disagree with you, receive boatloads. And so it goes.
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I am very sorry if you felt that my post was an opportunity to disagree with you. But to be honest it really makes me wonder if you have read my post. My only intention of posting was to fill in with the information I could give.

Ok I critizise the Wassermans books (i have both editions). Not many do. As you say for many this is the bible. It is a great source for information and fun to read. But it is not very accurate. IMO Burton Andersons "Vino" from about 1980 is a better source for information on older italians.
 
originally posted by Michael Lewis:
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
where thousands of bodies were left to rot in the sun after a famous Roman bottle on the site.
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Wow, sounds like one hell of a bottle. I mean, I knew the Romans made wine, but damn.
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Laughing sounds
 
Thanks all. I have Wasserman 2nd ed. but there's not much on several of the producers, as the original offer suggests. I bought in part to see for myself and write about them on my vanity site, if only to provide something for hopeless wine geek searchers like me. Plus, I'm vintage 1969 so I couldn't resist a few things even though it apparently was a crummy year in Piedmont according to Wasserman. I'll assume the same is true of the other areas represented in this offer, and then hope that's wrong. In the end, I'm a sucker for old and not terribly expensive nebbiolo. We'll see if that changes to old and expensive. I fully admit to seeking a short cut to some greatness here.
 
originally posted by gregory dal piaz:
By the way,

Was at Vallana on Saturday, wines are very good and I expect will become better with the influx of some capital.
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I've tasted through what Skurnik has brought in, and in it seemed a much more forthright style than in ancient times. Would you agree with that, or did you see something reminiscent of old at the cellar?
 
originally posted by Vincent Fritzsche:
Thanks all. I have Wasserman 2nd ed. but there's not much on several of the producers
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Is it possible that you and I are looking at different Wasserman books? I ask because I actually have two different Italian wine books from him, one quite thin, the other quite thick. The thick one has long writeups on most of the producers in the offer.

Just saying.
 
Hmm, I fully admit to having not scoured the book for every last name. I have the thick book and had some luck but not as much as I had hoped. I suppose I should look again.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
originally posted by gregory dal piaz:
By the way,

Was at Vallana on Saturday, wines are very good and I expect will become better with the influx of some capital.
Click to expand...

I've tasted through what Skurnik has brought in, and in it seemed a much more forthright style than in ancient times. Would you agree with that, or did you see something reminiscent of old at the cellar?
Click to expand...

I think what is avaialble today is pretty good if straightforward but the driving motivation over the past few years has been fiscal exigency. I spent several hours there and my understanding and feel is that they are excited about the prospects that the reopening of the US market may afford them, but they are exceptionally cautious people having been burned repeatedly over the years.
 
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