Gamay as Syrah vs. Pinot?

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Saina Nieminen

Saina Nieminen
I guess it must have been on the extinct bored or in my imagination, but I seem to recall a post about Gamay on some soils becoming like Pinot with age, and on others becoming more like Syrah. So how is it? Is my memory failing me? If not, where does Gamay become Syrah-like instead of becoming like Pinot?

I ask, because a couple recently opened 2010 Burgaud Morgon CdPs have seemed rather more peppery and gamey than I expected Morgon to be. And yes, I realize that 2010 is not aged Gamay, but the N. Rhône Syrahsity of these bottles reminded me of this old thread that I can no longer find.
 
There were definite (and attractive) capsicum notes in recently consumed bottles of the DxxxxxX Prologue 2011 and the DxxxxxxxxR Gamay 2008 obtained from known local sources. I remember that thread too...
 

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winedisorder.com

The above has some comments on Gamay becoming Pinot. I don't recall any discussion of Gamay becoming Syrah here, but as a side note Jefford mentions that the soils of Beaujolais are similar to the Northern Rhone and not Burgundy.
 
originally posted by Yule Kim:
I remember reading David Schildnecht claiming that aged cru Beaujolais tasting more like syrah than pinot.
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I recall a thread on Jancis Robinson's forum to that effect but he was in a minority of one possibly because he began by disagreeing about the tendency [as a prime factor] of some cru Beaujolais to 'pinot' with age.

While I have certainly found it possible to confuse some good old Northern Rhones with Burgundy and have certainly experienced good old cru Beaujolais [primarily Moulin-a-Vent but others too] being Burgundy like, it doesn't seem a bridge too far to see how mature cru Beaujolais might [sometimes] taste like Syrah rather than Pinot.

I find that the more mature [good] red wines are the more likely they are to have similarities in taste and the possibility that Pinot Noir, Gamay Noir [a Pinot offspring] and Syrah particularly within a fairly tight Burgundy, Beaujolais, Northern Rhone area might taste similar doesn't seem far-fetched

Separately I recall someone suggesting that another reason why some Northern Rhone [Syrah] tasted like Beaujolais [Gamay] was because there was quite a lot of Gamay growing amongst the Syrah. He claimed this was obvious as the vines changed colour in the Autumn since the [different] Gamay and Syrah timing and colour shows were quite obvious within vineyards. No other evidence or the extent was mentioned.
 
originally posted by nigel groundwater:

I find that the more mature [good] red wines are the more likely they are to have similarities in taste
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I've had zinfandel from the '30s that you might have guessed blind as Bordeaux.

The Noodle only knows the real blend of grapes, of course.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by nigel groundwater:

I find that the more mature [good] red wines are the more likely they are to have similarities in taste
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I've had zinfandel from the '30s that you might have guessed blind as Bordeaux.

The Noodle only knows the real blend of grapes, of course.
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In the 1970s, most (not all) Zinfandel was made in what was called claret style -- with a marked resemblance.

Re older red wines converging in taste: I don't necessarily agree, but there are those out there who see it that way. For example, René Rostaing says that he prefers to drink his wines between 5 and 10 years of age because after that, he sees a convergence in wines of different regions.
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
It's a verb: pinoter. ("To pinot.") The common thing one hears is: "Ça pinote," or "ce vin pinote."
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to continue with this terminology, per ed behr, art of eating no. 76, page 22, when an old beaujolais was opened (a 14 year old nouveau), the vigneron's comment was, "me, i don't like it when they 'pinotent'. i like burgundies very much, but gamay should stay gamay."

further on in the same paragraph, discussing old gamay: "beaujolais makers say the wine becomes 'pinotise'", resembling pinot noir from burgundy".
 
As someone who drinks a fair amount of old Beaujolais my impression is the wines don't actually taste like pinot or syrah but sometimes taste as though they could have come from either Burgundy or the Rhone. Does that make any sense?
 
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