The understanding of aged wine

Arnt Egil Nordlien

Arnt Egil Nordlien
Over the last couple of years I made a little experiment. The idea began when I found a source for loads of cheap Italian mature wine. The downside was that most of this wine was the type of wine that you are told has no storage-potential. For the seller, the bottles were almost impossible to sell. So I did some research behind my purchases and selected products that were made by producers believed to be good at the time the wine was produced. Type of wine or grape and vintage has had considerably less impact on my choices. The result of all these experiences is that there are hardly any people who have drunk so much bad wine than me. But another result is that all these experiences are not at all consistent with the prevailing opinion of what one can read. By studying literature about different Italian wines ability to age one will find an astonishing agreement in what writers believe is ageworthy wines - and what is not. I do not have any evidence to say the following: but I guess the probability is high that there is a lot of copy and paste of other people's opinions in most books that deal with the subject. In other words, what might begin with ignorance is eventually underlined as actual wine-cultural misinterpretations. This means in other words, the grapes that nebbiolo, sangiovese and aglianico have a storage potential. Everyone knows, because we all have tried. But how many knows if a white Orvieto can be stored for 50 years? According to a unison corps of writers a white Orvieto can not be stored for 50 years. But how many have tried? Probably none. I have now bought a 50 year old white Orvieto. Took well care of it. Gave the bottle the appropriate catering, before it was carefully opened and consumed. Conclusion: White Orvieto should definitely not be stored for 50 years. As mentioned, there is hardly anyone who has drunk as much bad wine as me during the last couple of years.

But out of all these experiences I also remarkably often find wines that completely breaks with the unanimous author-voice to a point that it is almost shocking. Shockingly, especially when these attitudes have been established not only internationally, regionally and locally, but also down to the local wineries own understanding of their products. I do not think many growers in the Aosta will agree with me when I say that petit rouge is a very interesting grape in a storage perspective of 30-40 years. The same can be said about schiava. A perfect bottle of '55 Sandbichler auslese from H.Lun proved to still be on the young side. Another great bottle of '71 Kolbenhofer from J.Hofstätter was amazingly delicious drink now. Today few if any makes serious Schiava. Why not? Have the producers lost faith in the grape? How?

The understanding of wine is largely influenced by literature on the subject. Wine is a big field. Few, if any, have the opportunity to put themselves deep into all the different aspects of the wine-field. We have to trust what we read. So an extensive copy and paste-attitude may cause improper understandings among consumers. I find indications that this may be a widespread problem in wine-literature. It is most probably not limited to the understanding of italian wines and a couple of years of a very limited experience done by me.

PS! This article have been translated from norwegian by the fun of google translate and quickly checked by me. So I hope the translation is understandable.
 
Data are good. Thank you, Arnt, for taking the empirical path.

Is there some convenient way for you to share, in greater detail, what you've learned? Perhaps a list of wines and your observations?
 
This is so true. So much of the conventional wisdom is based on repeating the previous iteration of the conventional wisdom, with fewer and fewer people having actual firsthand knowledge of what they're talking about.

A good chunk of my cellar consists of science experiments for this purpose.
 
Fascinating.

Though I would certainly have guessed that about white Orvieto, based on the ones I tried in situ during the '80s.
 
Who is it that says Petit Rouge cannot age? Voyat Chambave Rouge is legendary. Rosenthal cites several old vintages of that wine as exemplary in his published book. Burton Anderson has in his Wine Atlas a color photo of Ezio Voyat in his cellar next to old bottles.

Who is it that says Schiava cannot age? Certainly I don't think Mr. Hofstatter says that.

I actually think Arnt that you are setting up straw men and bragging at the same time. Or perhaps you have given bad examples above and you have better ones.

I have had Orvieto with 5 or so years on it and thought it was delicious. I was able to extrapolate in my mind at that time that perhaps 50 years wasn't going to happen for this kind of wine.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Data are good. Thank you, Arnt, for taking the empirical path.

Is there some convenient way for you to share, in greater detail, what you've learned? Perhaps a list of wines and your observations?

It's been some wines and I have no records of undrinkable wines. It is also a ongoing observation. I will keep trying. But to generalize a little bit I am amazed at how well many lesser bodied wines show with age. Petit rouge has been mentioned. I had for example the '78 Vin des Chanoines from the Aosta-school. According to the producer it should be drunk within two years of release. Yet the '78 shows an amazing freshness. All the fruit is still there. I bet it has not lost even a tiny bit. Some aged complexity. Still not a big wine, but it gives all the pleasure one can desire and with not one single trace of oxidation.

I will probably post details on some wines/producers in the future. But here's a list of some wines (there is more) I have tried. Notes can be found for those that wants to read now.

-Sandbichler auslese 1955, Heinrich Lun
-Kolbenhof auslese 1971, J.Hofstätter
-Chianti Classico Riserva Ducale Oro 1958, Ruffino
-Orvieto abboccato 1962, Tenuta della Sala/Antinori
-Carema 1967, Cantina dei produttori nebbiolo di Carema
-Wildbacher riserva 1969, Cantina Col Sandago
-Solleone dry NV, Cantine Lungarotti (late 60s early 70s)
-Embarcador vino liquoroso NV, Cantina enologica - A.B.M. (probably 60s)
-Lessona '64, '68, Sella
-Bramaterra '74, '83, Sella
-Donnaz '74, '76, '85
-Monica 1966, Sella & Mosca
-Gattinara 1952, Giancarlo Travaglini
-Vernaccia di Oristano Sardinian emerald 1968, Giuseppe Cossu
-Vernaccia di Oristano Sardinian gold 71,68, 67, 65, 61, older NV
-Valtellina superiore Grumello riserva Sassorosso 1964, Cantina A.Pelizzatti
-Pinot nero 1956, Kupelwieser
-Brunello di Montalcino 1986, Tenuta Caparzo
-Enfer d'Arvier 78, 90 Albino Thomain
-Chambave Rouge 1974, Ezio Voyat
-Barbera del Monferrato 1974, Scarpa
-Freisa 1971, Fontanafredda
-Freisa La Bussianella 1986, Aldo Conterno
-Möt Ziflon 1970, Luciano Brigatti
-Sciacchetra' NV, Cantine Massucco (50s or 60s)
-Franciacorta brut 1980, Ca'del Bosco
-Frecciarossa St.George rose 1961, Dr.G.Odero
-Frecciarossa Grand cru 1969, Dr.G.Odero
-Valtellina Sforzato 1969, Arturo Pelizzatti
-Valtellina superiore Valgella 1969, A.Pelizzatti
-Valtellina superiore Sassella riserva 1973, Nino Negri
-Alto Adige Pinot Bianco 1980, Cantina Terlan
-Goldmuskateller Liquoroso 1971, G.Kettmeir
-Moscato rosa 1977, Istituto Agrario provinciale
-Teroldego Rotaliano Maso Scari 1978, Barone de Cles
-Breganze Palazzotto cabernet 1985, Maculan
-Vin santo de Gambellara NV, Cantine sociale di Gambellara (60s or 70s)
-La Grola 1986, Allegrini
-Franconia 1973, Tenuta agricola Santa Caterina
-Raboso delle Grave gran riserva 1966, Cantina Deroa
-Ronco delle Acacie 1986, Abbazia di Rosazzo
-Schiopetino 1974, Rocca Bernarda/Antonini Perusini
-Verduzzo superiore 1938, Tenuta di Villanova
-Albana di Romagna amabile 1977, Vini pregiati Celli
-Rosso Conero Vigna del Curato riserva speciale 1971, Antonio Marinoni
-Rosso Conero 1983, Serenelli
-Le Pergole Torte 1980, Fattoria di Montevertine
-Vino nobile di Montepulciano riserva 1982, Tenuta Valdipiatta
-Vin santo (rosso) Fattoria di Santa Cristina 1967, Antinori
-Torgiano Rubesco 1967, Lungarotti
-Falerno riserva speciale NV, Pasquale Scala (20s or 30s)
-Castel del Monte Riserva Il Falcone 1980, Rivera
-Casteldrione 1968, Cantine d'Alfonso del Sordo
-Rosso Montero 1969, d'Alfonso del Sordo
-Salice stravecchio vendemmia speciale 1962, Leone de Castris
-Soliento Croce d'Oro 1970, Ruffino
-Torre quarto riserva speciale 1953, F.Cirillo-Farrusi
-Torre quarto riserva 1968, F.Cirillo-Farrusi
-Torre quarto 1974, F.Cirillo-Farrusi
-Aglianico del Vulture 1971, Centrale Cantine Cooperative Riforma
-Aglianico del Vulture 1985, d'Angelo
-Ciro extra rosso secco NV, Vincenzo Ippolito (40s or 50s)
-Ciro rosso classico 1971, Vincenzo Ippolito
-Faro stravecchio 1958, Spinasanta
-Marsala Vecchioflorio dolce 1936, Florio & C.
-Rosso del Conte 1984, Tasca d'Almerita/Regaleali
-Giro 1966, Sella & Mosca
-Jerzu canonau dolce riserva speciale 1972, Cooperativa vitivinicola Jerzu
-Malvasia vini speciali della Sardegna 1959, Demetrio Gaudina
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
Who is it that says Petit Rouge cannot age? Voyat Chambave Rouge is legendary. Rosenthal cites several old vintages of that wine as exemplary in his published book. Burton Anderson has in his Wine Atlas a color photo of Ezio Voyat in his cellar next to old bottles.

Who is it that says Schiava cannot age? Certainly I don't think Mr. Hofstatter says that.

You don't have to agree with me Levi, its perfectly allright - its only thoughts. But to your points here:

Petit rouge - Yes I know about Ezio Voyats chambave rouge and I know it has (or had) a reputation. I am not able to check all books in the world on this subject - and I don't have Rosenthals book. But I think what you write just underlines my point. Rosenthal has actually tasted the wines, so he knows better.

Schiava: You are completely wrong here. Kolbenhofer was J.Hofstätters prestige-wine from the first vintages of it in the 50s. Today the present owner - not Mr.Hofstätter, but Martin Foradori - does not care much about schiava. It is a well-known story that Hofstätter has replanted most schiava with pinot nero, cabernet, merlot, syrah. He does care about Lagrein though. The vineyard of Kolbenhof is mostly planted with gewürztraminer. The red Kolbenhofer still exists and still is made of Schiava with some lagrein. I think today the only J.Hofstätter-wine from (mainly) Schiava. And the cheapest wine in the lineup. Mr.Foradori says it should be drunk within two years.

As for the Sandbichler from H.Lun. This wine also exists today. But schiava has been replaced. There's two Sandbichlers: a pinot nero and a lagrein.
 
The petit rouge I tried has all been pretty thick, and seemed like they could last without aging. I had examples from the '80s which suggest a slight softening but without real complexity developing.

I think the general point and underlying reasoning is probably right (that received wisdom isn't always so wise, because many lack the experience to challenge/alter it), but I am very wary of extrapolating too much from limited data.

Thanks, Egil.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
Data are good. Thank you, Arnt, for taking the empirical path.

Is there some convenient way for you to share, in greater detail, what you've learned? Perhaps a list of wines and your observations?

Thank you for recognizing the plural.
 
originally posted by Yixin:
I think the general point and underlying reasoning is probably right (that received wisdom isn't always so wise, because many lack the experience to challenge/alter it), but I am very wary of extrapolating too much from limited data.

True, I tried to be wary and hope I am. When I started drinking these wines, my plan was to summarize after one year. Its now been about two and I have realized that even if I keep doing this the rest of my life (and I will not) the experience I will gather will still be a limited one.

Thanks Yixin.
 
That's an awfully long list of bad wine.

I have never even seen a bottle of auslese schiava! Is something like this even made anymore??
 
Thanks for the interesting study, Arnt. I think frequently what happens is that the writers ask the producers if a particular wine is for aging. I suspect that many Italian producers, like most French producers, drank their wines young, and so said that they were not for aging. Of course, in France, in most appellations there were always a few that for whatever reason had older bottles and it was just a matter of finding the and getting them to open the bottles to really test the claims. I should add that today, many German producers think that Kabinett is only for drinking young, yet I've had so many great old ones.

My experience in France has sometimes been that even if the wine can age, the producer doesn't necessarily know or care to hear it. Case in point: Gérard and then Jean-Louis Chave used to always counsel drinking the Saint-Josephs young -- within the first three years or so and it only merited being consumed with sausages and the like -- and each was completely uninterested when I said that I had cellared the wines for considerably longer and they aged extremely well. That's finally changed there.
 
Hey! Jadot B-V. That's where it's at.

But seriously, I'm all over Arnt's basic point.

I'm drinking an 09 Faury country wine right now I thinking the rule of 15 would most definitely apply.
 
Some producers drink their wines early because young wines are vibrant and exciting in a way that aged or exported wines are not(unless one air-freights). Even after 6 months or 1 year, that vibrancy recedes a bit, and it's not clear if the wines will emerge better on the other side.

And I think there's a bit of palate fatigue as well - we drink about 1,000 bottles a year (i.e. at lunch, dinner), and probably taste 4-5 times of that, including tank samples. So we often reach for a bright bottle with buvabilité, rather than something else. I've stood up a line-up of '88 red burgs for 4 months now but can't bring myself to open them; this week I've opted for 2008 Dupasquier Gamay (the detox wine), 2010 CRB Gamay (still fascinating and fun), 2009 Pr St-C Mondeuse (ooh la la), 2010 Gonon St-Joseph (pure, clean, savoury) thus far, and tonight I'll probably drink a Brun Beaujolais (I like the FGM in 2010 a lot) or a 2009 Baudry Chinon (wowzer). When you taste dry Furmint at 7 in the morning, a mountain Gamay for lunch is much more appealing.

So I'm not surprised that producers have an earlier drinking window, because their drinking patterns are quite different.
 
originally posted by BJ:
Hey! Jadot B-V. That's where it's at.

But seriously, I'm all over Arnt's basic point.

I'm drinking an 09 Faury country wine right now I thinking the rule of 15 would most definitely apply.
Um, this is a post about people who think certain wines can't age, not people who believe most wines can go 15.
 
This Faury will definitely go 15.

The Jadot B-V this is mostly a joke. But some people believe the 92 goes well with bread.
 
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