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Oswaldo Costa

Oswaldo Costa
2004 Macon-Villages Domaine Valette 13.0%
Delicious wafts of minerality, anise, a bit of oak. Texture also delicious, balance perfectly bittersweet. The wood bothered me a little (Marcia found it fine), but the fruit was lovely.

2003 Pouilly-Fuissé Domaine Valette "Tradition" 14.0%
Slightly oxidative almonds with white flowers and a lot of oak. Surprising acidity, suspicious for the vintage. Alcohol not too high, but the wood seems OTT, masking potentially beautiful fruit. The high acidity allowed us to finish the bottle, but the flavor seemed designed for others.

2001 Domaine Valette Pouilly-Vinzelles 14.0%
Oxidative envelope, with almond, oak, white flowers and minerality. Delicious texture, pleasant acidity, good balance, excellent fruit. Before food, I found the finish short, but it became fine as an adjuvant. The oxidative trace was slight, more like a hint of marzipan. The wood was contained, but I had hoped for less.

All in all, great fruit, but the search for the great unoaked white Burg continues. If anyone has any suggestions...
 
I usually go for Brun Beaujolais Blanc when I'm looking for unoaked chardonnay. Probably not great per se but certainly very, very, very good.
 
Louis Michel?

Thanks for the notes; I've enjoyed Valette's Macon in the past, when I've found it fairly priced, but not recently.

Does Guillemot-Michel raise its Macon in wood?
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
2004 Macon-Villages Domaine Valette 13.0%
Delicious wafts of minerality, anise, a bit of oak. Texture also delicious, balance perfectly bittersweet. The wood bothered me a little (Marcia found it fine), but the fruit was lovely.
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Unfortunately, I think you're confusing lees with oak, here. This is raised in stainless, but spends a lot of time on the lees (22 mo.).

I have shared wine with other people who at times seem to find the organoleptic qualities of oak in its absence.

Don't slam the white Burgundy!

These are very fine; you should seek out the Viré-Clessé, which to my tastes is the best of the bunch. A magnum of 2007 V-C a couple of weeks ago converted a non-white-drinking friend.
 
More reading shows that the Pouillys are in old oak (10% new max) for 80% of the time and 20% in stainless. They are whole cluster (!).
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
I have shared wine with other people who at times seem to find the organoleptic qualities of oak in its absence.
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I understand older unoaked chards can acquire something approaching the flavor of oak, but the flavor of lees has always been sometin' else for me.
 
Oswaldo I note that Ian F mentions Louis Michel, Chablis, above and, like Louis Michel, there are other winemakers that raise Chablis that sees zero oak, old or new, from basic through 1ers to Grand Cru.

But I am sure you knew that so perhaps a Chablis isn't the great [unoaked] white Burg you are seeking?
 
originally posted by nigel groundwater:
Oswaldo I note that Ian F mentions Louis Michel, Chablis, above and, like Louis Michel, there are other winemakers that raise Chablis that sees zero oak, old or new, from basic through 1ers to Grand Cru.

But I am sure you knew that so perhaps a Chablis isn't the great [unoaked] white Burg you are seeking?
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Because Chablis has more unoaked exemplars I expected more suggestions from there (they'd be welcome). But the Chablis most often called great (Dauvissat & Raveneau) are oaked, afaik. I haven't heard Louis Michel praised much, how close do you consider him to be in the same league? Btw, I have no problem with oak for aeration, so I'm not (necessarily) looking for stainless steel, with its souless connotation; it's just the flavor that I'd be curious to avoid, to see what Burgundian terroir + the variety can do uncondimented by vessels.
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
More reading shows that the Pouillys are in old oak (10% new max) for 80% of the time and 20% in stainless. They are whole cluster (!).
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Can't seem top locate a website for them - do you have a reference? I'd love to read more.
 
Louis Michel is much-beloved in some quarters, and I'll bring a Montee de Tonnerre any time you can overcome your arbitrary and capricious aversion to planned cities.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by nigel groundwater:
Oswaldo I note that Ian F mentions Louis Michel, Chablis, above and, like Louis Michel, there are other winemakers that raise Chablis that sees zero oak, old or new, from basic through 1ers to Grand Cru.

But I am sure you knew that so perhaps a Chablis isn't the great [unoaked] white Burg you are seeking?
Click to expand...

Because Chablis has more unoaked exemplars I expected more suggestions from there (they'd be welcome). But the Chablis most often called great (Dauvissat & Raveneau) are oaked, afaik. I haven't heard Louis Michel praised much, how close do you consider him to be in the same league? Btw, I have no problem with oak for aeration, so I'm not (necessarily) looking for stainless steel, with its souless connotation; it's just the flavor that I'd be curious to avoid, to see what Burgundian terroir + the variety can do uncondimented by vessels.
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I wouldn't put Louis Michel up there with Raveneau and Dauvissat but then neither are his prices. IMO in value for money terms Michel is certainly worth drinking and I have more of his Grand Cru wines [Grenouilles and Vaudesir] than of any other Chablis producer. Indeed for price reasons the only Burgundy GCs I buy these days in any quantity are from Chablis.

Of what many might consider the top 3 [Raveneau, Dauvissat and Fevre; possibly in that order] I only cellar Fevre due to the UK prices for the others although in the last few vintages Fevre has moved closer pricewise to Dauvissat with Raveneau still considerably more expensive. Indeed I only drink Raveneau and Dauvissat when in France where they are significantly less, even in Michelin 2/3* restaurants, than they are in wineshops in the UK. Oddly they are often less expensive than Fevre wines in France too which I assume is a primarily a function of longstanding supply arrangements with the great restaurants.

I have no aversion to the level of oak now used by Chablis producers generally since the excesses of the past seem to have disappeared although perhaps a few that used no oak previously now use a little, mostly old.

I certainly don't notice oak as an obvious component in the Raveneau [fermented in stainless steel and then matured in old oak AFAIK] and Dauvissat [mix of steel and old oak fermentation with little new oak for some wines] wines I have had but the Louis Michel wines never see it in any guise. Fevre, who prior to the Henriot/Bouchard takeover in 1998 was an [in]famous oaker now has a very conservative approach and I like their Domaine wines at all levels although their prices have moved up steeply in recent years.

From memory the Billaud-Simon 1er cru wines are fermented in steel [GCs in oak] and Laurent Tribut's [Vincent Dauvissat's brother-in-law] ferments in enamelled tanks with elevage in old oak so any oak component should be very minor.

At a lower level another non-oaker like Louis Michel is the very large Jean Durup operation but his wines do not have the reputation of the others mentioned above although their prices are likely to be attractive and, although I have never had his wines, there have been some good reports.

I am sure others can provide other examples from the multitude of very good Chablis producers.
 
originally posted by nigel groundwater:

From memory the Billaud-Simon 1er cru wines are fermented in steel [GCs in oak] and Laurent Tribut's [Vincent Dauvissat's brother-in-law] ferments in enamelled tanks with elevage in old oak so any oak component should be very minor.
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Tribut is excellent, so is Daniel-Etienne Defaix in the barely oaked ( or possibly entirely unoaked?) category.

Boudin comes to mind, but my information is severely out of date. Back in the 90s, they were definitely unoaked and remarkably inexpensive (how about $20 for 95/96 Dead Man!). Delicious on release; don't know how well they age though.
 
As luck would have it, just got this invite to a Burgundy event promoted by the French Embassy at which Louis Michel will be present. Among the other, I'm not partial to Ambroise and Roux (based on single samples), but if there's anyone else I should pay attention to, would be much obliged to know (Jeff, there's a Moreau, but not C.).

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