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NWR: Searching for a College
- Thread starter Bill Lundstrom
- Start date
.originally posted by VLM:
I'm not a scientist against the humanities, quite the opposite. I'm just a realist about what is and isn't plausible for middle-class people to study at university.
But clearly not a realist! This is some seriously utopian stuff:
originally posted by VLM:
I also think that departments need to align the number of graduate students they take with the number of jobs available.
Professors breed like Australian rabbits.originally posted by VLM:
This isn't just a problem for the humanities, do you know how miserable life is for Biology PhDs?
Very few professors in comp lit, I would imagine, are turning out 5 students and a few postdocs each year. But it's not unusual in top science programs.
originally posted by Cliff:
originally posted by MLipton:
Ding, ding, ding. "Institutional allowance" aka overhead on our grants is a major cash cow for our University (and all other R-1s of which I'm aware).
Mark Lipton
Do grants at Purdue more than make up for overhead, all the equipment, and faculty salaries?
It's difficult to do strict accounting, Cliff, but at the current rate of 58%, our University is bringing in close to $150M per annum in overhead, which is almost 20% of the operating budget of the University. How much does it cost for electricity, water, clerical and janitorial services to run our department? I couldn't say as I haven't chaired our department (for which I am quite grateful). What I do know is that I work in a building that was built in 1930 and last renovated (partially) in 1990 and has so far produced two Nobel Prize winners, three National Academy of Sciences members and an untold number of lesser awards. Can we get a new building? Not a chance in hell, sad to say, as the state doesn't have the requisite $100-200M it would cost to build one.
Mark Lipton
Tom Glasgow
Thomas W Glasgow
One of the UC law schools plans to cut back enrollment by 20% over three years or so due to a lack of jobs.originally posted by Cliff:
.originally posted by VLM:
I'm not a scientist against the humanities, quite the opposite. I'm just a realist about what is and isn't plausible for middle-class people to study at university.
But clearly not a realist! This is some seriously utopian stuff:
originally posted by VLM:
I also think that departments need to align the number of graduate students they take with the number of jobs available.
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by Cliff:
originally posted by MLipton:
Ding, ding, ding. "Institutional allowance" aka overhead on our grants is a major cash cow for our University (and all other R-1s of which I'm aware).
Mark Lipton
Do grants at Purdue more than make up for overhead, all the equipment, and faculty salaries?
It's difficult to do strict accounting, Cliff, but at the current rate of 58%, our University is bringing in close to $150M per annum in overhead, which is almost 20% of the operating budget of the University. How much does it cost for electricity, water, clerical and janitorial services to run our department? I couldn't say as I haven't chaired our department (for which I am quite grateful). What I do know is that I work in a building that was built in 1930 and last renovated (partially) in 1990 and has so far produced two Nobel Prize winners, three National Academy of Sciences members and an untold number of lesser awards. Can we get a new building? Not a chance in hell, sad to say, as the state doesn't have the requisite $100-200M it would cost to build one.
Mark Lipton
Does that account for base salaries for faculty in tenure-line positions? My understanding of our (remarkably opaque) funding structure is that student head-count figures prominently in our tax-levy budget, which in turn is a significant revenue stream for us. We're just creating PhD programs in science to try to become an R1, which would give us different funding formulas.
Apologies if I have missed it going along, but the one huge thing I have not seen addressed is the radical decline in federal support for higher education over the course of the past couple of generations.
ETA - anyone know if law schools or business programs are money makers for the universities?
originally posted by SFJoe:
Professors breed like Australian rabbits.originally posted by VLM:
This isn't just a problem for the humanities, do you know how miserable life is for Biology PhDs?
Very few professors in comp lit, I would imagine, are turning out 5 students and a few postdocs each year. But it's not unusual in top science programs.
Creative destruction takes a very long time in the ivory tower. The most prestigious posts -- the famous faculty who need lots of graduate students -- do not correspond to market demand, such as it is, for PhDs. I don't know about five people finishing every year, but it's not uncommon for people to have ten students or so; some have quite a few more. I know grad students who volunteer to walk a famous profs. dog for a little face time (with the prof.).
originally posted by Cliff:
originally posted by SFJoe:
Professors breed like Australian rabbits.originally posted by VLM:
This isn't just a problem for the humanities, do you know how miserable life is for Biology PhDs?
Very few professors in comp lit, I would imagine, are turning out 5 students and a few postdocs each year. But it's not unusual in top science programs.
Creative destruction takes a very long time in the ivory tower. The most prestigious posts -- the famous faculty who need lots of graduate students -- do not correspond to market demand, such as it is, for PhDs. I don't know about five people finishing every year, but it's not uncommon for people to have ten students or so; some have quite a few more. I know grad students who volunteer to walk a famous profs. dog for a little face time (with the prof.).
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Sharon Bowman
Sharon Bowman
originally posted by Cliff:
ETA - anyone know if law schools or business programs are money makers for the universities?
Ha ha ha ha ha
Tom Glasgow
Thomas W Glasgow
Not sure what you're laughing at but law schools and graduate business schools likely turn pretty good profits. Large class sizes are efficent and little student aid is offered. Medical schools are different story.originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
originally posted by Cliff:
ETA - anyone know if law schools or business programs are money makers for the universities?
Ha ha ha ha ha
Cole Kendall
Cole Kendall
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
originally posted by Cliff:
ETA - anyone know if law schools or business programs are money makers for the universities?
Ha ha ha ha ha
At Chicago it was claimed (back in the day) that the B School was about the only grad school that gave money back to the University.
Sharon Bowman
Sharon Bowman
I was laughing because it seems extremely obvious that law and business schools are major cash cows. I'll try to find a link, but there was an interesting article I read not long ago about the skyrocketing prices of law school, along with skyrocketing numbers of students at each one.
Sharon Bowman
Sharon Bowman
Here we go.
Ka-Ching!
"It is one of the academy’s open secrets: law schools toss off so much cash they are sometimes required to hand over as much as 30 percent of their revenue to universities, to subsidize less profitable fields."
Note that some focus is put on places like the one across the street from Joe, New York Law School.
"N.Y.L.S. is ranked in the bottom third of all law schools in the country, but with tuition and fees now set at $47,800 a year, it charges more than Harvard. It increased the size of the class that arrived in the fall of 2009 by an astounding 30 percent, even as hiring in the legal profession imploded."
Ka-Ching!
"It is one of the academy’s open secrets: law schools toss off so much cash they are sometimes required to hand over as much as 30 percent of their revenue to universities, to subsidize less profitable fields."
Note that some focus is put on places like the one across the street from Joe, New York Law School.
"N.Y.L.S. is ranked in the bottom third of all law schools in the country, but with tuition and fees now set at $47,800 a year, it charges more than Harvard. It increased the size of the class that arrived in the fall of 2009 by an astounding 30 percent, even as hiring in the legal profession imploded."
David Erickson
David Erickson
originally posted by Matt Latuchie:
originally posted by Cliff:
For the individual schools, Georgetown, Hopkins, and Tufts come to mind, among the privates.
For international business and language, George Washington University in DC offers some top rate programs in addition to an incredibly diverse array of overseas study options. I do believe, however, they're now the most expensive college in the US.
I have a young friend who is about to graduate from GW Law with $100,000+ in student debt and no job prospects. I also have a nephew who is going for his masters in civil engineering. He was accepted at CalTech, but he's going to the University of Vermont, which is giving him a free ride and an internship. In the world of engineering, CalTech is kinda like Yale. But in my nephew's world, "free" has a very real meaning, especially in terms of the economic constraints he won't face upon graduation.
For international business studies, I'd take a look at Thunderbird in Arizona. I don't know what their rep is like these days, but once upon a time they were the only game in town.
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
I've got two cousins (separate families) going to computer game design degree programs. Is that a 'trade'?
Sharon Bowman
Sharon Bowman
It's the apprentice phase before becoming a wine importer.
Tom Glasgow
Thomas W Glasgow
I think it's the inside track to becoming a niche wine importer.originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
I've got two cousins (separate families) going to computer game design degree programs. Is that a 'trade'?
Tom Glasgow
Thomas W Glasgow
You're too quick for me.originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
It's the apprentice phase before becoming a wine importer.