Query: the morphing of Pinot Noir with age

originally posted by MLipton:
3. Is there more to this progression than the two stages I've listed? Am I seeing merely an intermediate stage in these wines' development?
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In my experience it goes: strawberries --> cherries --> black cherries --> iron, then a long wait with many bottles going down the drain until it finally comes around again at about age 15 with a sweetness that only bottle age can bring to pinot noir.

Don't know if Drouhin Chorey will last that long but certainly stranger things have happened.

Acid Gnomes and the Dwarves of Oxidation totally come into play but like Chris said, that is some pretty technical shit and trying to explain it to layman such as yourself would be an uphill battle.
 
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by .sasha:
That's because they are black fruited to begin with, a quality hidden by "bright, crunchy acids and a light palate presence" which makes them appear more red fruited in youth. Countless examples from 1988 and 1993, particularly the former.
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Interesting. So the acids have an ability to mask the black or make it appear more red fruited? I'm agog, but I'll get over it.

Mark Lipton
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well , you did cite 06 chorey :-)
 
originally posted by Yixin:
originally posted by fatboy:


the good news is that -- yixin notwithstanding -- there is no (capital) crime in drinking this shit.
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Of course not, but jedem das seine, if one wants to be offensive about it.

The solution is to dose the older wine with some Beaujolais. Usually works for me. Last had an '88 Drouhin Corton-Bressandes, to which I added some 2010 Brun Fleurie Grille Midi and (here's the genius part, if I may say so) an equal amount of 2009 Dupasquier Rosé (Gamay and Pinot, natch). So you get all the strawberries you want, nicely resolved structure, and some complexity at the end. I have one more bottle of said Drouhin if anyone is in Singapore soon to test out other combinations.

Too bad Rudy blew it, eh?
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I see a bright future for you in the secondary market should the importing thang not work out for you.

Mark Lipton

p.s. If you send me that reference you wanted, I can get it for you now.
 
Guess which R-M this recipe mimics:

- Zero-dosage champagne, as young as possible, 65cl
- A pasada style sherry for the umami and salinity, 5cl
- Oaked white (I typically use a cheaper Oz Chard, which has the bonus of residual sugar), 5cl
- Sugar to taste

The limits of tasting ability are well-known but seldom acknowledged.

ETA: Princeton tasting
 
It's well-known (...at least, to me...) that wine judging is mostly a parlor game.

The blog associated with the Princeton Tasting is a lot more radical in its statements, for example, this advice to wine sellers:

1. The era of European/US dominance in wines is over. Prices are coming down as the new countries perfect their wines. You can be out in front on this by featuring lower-priced 'new New World wines';
2. Consumers are becoming more knowledgeable, and as they do, the demand for less expensive wines from the NNWW countries will grow

FYI. I went over to his personal blog to see what kind of man he is. Strong positions there, too, but he marshals his arguments well.

Getting back to the wine blog I think Morss' reliance on points, as a proxy for quality, is a homogenizing influence that removes a good deal of the sting from his arguments. Essentially, he puts himself in the same camp as Consumer Reports, which regularly extols the virtues of cheap/clean wines (Kendall-Jackson, et alia). But they both miss a subtlety: wine, as a category, is a non-essential -- Morss calls it "entertainment" -- and so should be defined by its best examples, not its average ones. In any de gustibus field there are taste-makers so it isn't clear to me what value Morss finds in doing blind tastings of (e.g.) cheap Malbec.
 
Mark, you're in luck's way, your Burgundy cravings satisfied with inexpensive regionals and villages, plus the occasional young Jura. Stop asking questions.
 
originally posted by Rahsaan:
Although the other week I was hanging out with some friends in CA who mainly drink CA pinot noir...
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What, and you didn't call?! (for all I know, you could've been in Yreka or the Imperial Valley...)
 
originally posted by Larry Stein:
originally posted by Rahsaan:
Although the other week I was hanging out with some friends in CA who mainly drink CA pinot noir...
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What, and you didn't call?! (for all I know, you could've been in Yreka or the Imperial Valley...)
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I was actually painfully close to all of you guys (a 48 hour tour in Marin, Berkeley, San Jose) and believe me I was aching for some proper jeebus activity.

But I was there for a wedding and there was no free time. Plus, given my home constraints and other travel plans, it was all I could do to actually make the event, let alone add another day or two to see more people.

Oh well.

At least I had a few minutes to stop by the Berkeley farmers market and eat some delightfully clean cherries, as well as remember exactly how beautiful it is out there! (I arrived after a series of 90F + maximum humidity Nyc days)
 
Jeff, I agree with you, which is why it's so funny (to me) that the AAWE seems to take itself seriously.

ETA: Buying wine is a lot like buying sex. I think it's fine to go for the orgasm-maximising approach, but a lot of the fun for me is (selling) the illusion that love is just round the corner. I'll leave all of you to decipher where that leaves wine critics (a different breed from wine writers) and wine economists.
 
originally posted by Yixin:
Guess which R-M this recipe mimics:

- Zero-dosage champagne, as young as possible, 65cl
- A pasada style sherry for the umami and salinity, 5cl
- Oaked white (I typically use a cheaper Oz Chard, which has the bonus of residual sugar), 5cl
- Sugar to taste
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Sounds like Krug to me! [insert emoticon of choice here]

Mark Lipton
 
"One of the major challenges in red wine production is, thus, to obtain the specific 'red-' and 'black-berry' aromas expected by consumers on the basis of widely held preconceived ideas."

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pubs.acs.org

(The black-fruited esters are somewhat more hindered than the red-fruited ones, so perhaps they are more resistant to hydrolysis?)
 
originally posted by Yixin:Last had an '88 Drouhin Corton-Bressandes, to which I added some 2010 Brun Fleurie Grille Midi and (here's the genius part, if I may say so) an equal amount of 2009 Dupasquier Rosé (Gamay and Pinot, natch).
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hey, I own a bottle of that corton - how was it before you started "improving" it?
 
originally posted by maureen:
originally posted by Yixin:Last had an '88 Drouhin Corton-Bressandes, to which I added some 2010 Brun Fleurie Grille Midi and (here's the genius part, if I may say so) an equal amount of 2009 Dupasquier Rosé (Gamay and Pinot, natch).
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hey, I own a bottle of that corton - how was it before you started "improving" it?
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Good, a luncheon Corton with a hard edge. But more interesting with some blending, as is usually the case. I also like adding some 3-5 year Syrah (no Viognier, the peachiness and oily texture are distracting) to older Cortons to get an old style Pommard. Dard et Ribo is great if you want to make them taste younger, while I typically use Graillot Crozes for a slight hint of leather (texturally) on the finish. I've had quite a few Epenots this way.

I do think the marketing-led obsession with micro vineyards means we're not as likely to get some of the great, seemingly immortal wines of yore - old school Riojas (where the grapes come from diverse terroirs), some of the negoce Burgs, Port, etc.
 
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