When is a Beaut not a beaut?

The 08s last year certainly weren't yuck, but some lumber was evident, unfortunately.
There isn't a huge amount of oak percentage wise, you know, certainly not more than in some wines that you and I are likely to enjoy.
So once again we need to ask ourselves what it is in the media that brings out the oak so much more.
 
originally posted by .sasha:
The 08s last year certainly weren't yuck, but some lumber was evident, unfortunately.
There isn't a huge amount of oak percentage wise, you know, certainly not more than in some wines that you and I are likely to enjoy.
So once again we need to ask ourselves what it is in the media that brings out the oak so much more.
Click to expand...

I've wondered about this with Rhone wines. Some see some barriques and don't show it at all (as long as there's some age on the barrels). Some merely like sideways at an oak tree and become intolerable. I sometimes think it's just me and what I notice, but maybe something else is at work.
 
I have recorded five TNs on T-B and they are consistent. My favorite: "wood, butter, a bit of chicken soup and some good grip but it blossoms into an over-oaked mess with air."
 
originally posted by .sasha:
The 08s last year certainly weren't yuck, but some lumber was evident, unfortunately.
There isn't a huge amount of oak percentage wise, you know, certainly not more than in some wines that you and I are likely to enjoy.
So once again we need to ask ourselves what it is in the media that brings out the oak so much more.
Click to expand...

I was so disappointed that perhaps I exaggerated with yuck. Kept thinking of Sophie Tollot giving me the spiel about how their wines are made in the vineyard.
 
I think that the issue of oak integration may revolve around the amount of dry extract in the wine. Certainly, some winemakers talk about wines being big enough to handle the oak. The poster children would be the wines of Bordeaux, where even the traditional producers use new oak.

Mark Lipton
 
The older "Beaut's" are well worth searching out if ever see them. I have fond memories of the 71 and 72 Corton and 64 Beaune Greves, but they are probably getting a bit long-in-the-tooth.
 
originally posted by Andrew Zachary:
The older "Beaut's" are well worth searching out if ever see them. I have fond memories of the 71 and 72 Corton and 64 Beaune Greves, but they are probably getting a bit long-in-the-tooth.
Click to expand...
Getting a bit heavy in the dashes yourself, me buck.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by Andrew Zachary:
The older "Beaut's" are well worth searching out if ever see them. I have fond memories of the 71 and 72 Corton and 64 Beaune Greves, but they are probably getting a bit long-in-the-tooth.
Click to expand...
Getting a bit heavy in the dashes yourself, me buck.
Click to expand...

Chuckle.

originally posted by MLipton:
I think that the issue of oak integration may revolve around the amount of dry extract in the wine. Certainly, some winemakers talk about wines being big enough to handle the oak. The poster children would be the wines of Bordeaux, where even the traditional producers use new oak.
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And, for those who think PN can't handle 100% new wood, there's always DRC, who reportedly use it every year on everything, regardless of vintage characteristics, and I don't hear anyone complaining. But I also don't know anyone with a disorderly palate who tastes them; they are not ours to diss. I bet the wood in them sucks too, at least before Y20.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by Andrew Zachary:
The older "Beaut's" are well worth searching out if ever see them. I have fond memories of the 71 and 72 Corton and 64 Beaune Greves, but they are probably getting a bit long-in-the-tooth.
Click to expand...
Getting a bit heavy in the dashes yourself, me buck.
Click to expand...

Chuckle.

originally posted by MLipton:
I think that the issue of oak integration may revolve around the amount of dry extract in the wine. Certainly, some winemakers talk about wines being big enough to handle the oak. The poster children would be the wines of Bordeaux, where even the traditional producers use new oak.
Click to expand...

And, for those who think PN can't handle 100% new wood, there's always DRC, who reportedly use it every year on everything, regardless of vintage characteristics, and I don't hear anyone complaining. But I also don't know anyone with a disorderly palate who tastes them; they are not ours to diss. I bet the wood in them sucks too, at least before Y20.
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Not to mention Rousseau C and CdeB.

I had the 1996 La Tache at a Burgundy tasting many years ago. I regret to say that it was fantastic.
 
originally posted by Jay Miller:
I regret to say that it was fantastic.
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This is the kind of language which continues to differentiate the multiple Jay Millers.
 
And, for those who think PN can't handle 100% new wood, there's always DRC, who reportedly use it every year on everything, regardless of vintage characteristics, and I don't hear anyone complaining. But I also don't know anyone with a disorderly palate who tastes them; they are not ours to diss. I bet the wood in them sucks too, at least before Y20.
Click to expand...

Well, it's hard to muster any real interest in DRC, now that it's been overtaken by Marcassin.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by Andrew Zachary:
The older "Beaut's" are well worth searching out if ever see them. I have fond memories of the 71 and 72 Corton and 64 Beaune Greves, but they are probably getting a bit long-in-the-tooth.
Click to expand...
Getting a bit heavy in the dashes yourself, me buck.
Click to expand...

I thought we were always looking for some dash in our wines, but who am I to argue?
 
originally posted by Andrew Zachary:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by Andrew Zachary:
The older "Beaut's" are well worth searching out if ever see them. I have fond memories of the 71 and 72 Corton and 64 Beaune Greves, but they are probably getting a bit long-in-the-tooth.
Click to expand...
Getting a bit heavy in the dashes yourself, me buck.
Click to expand...

I thought we were always looking for some dash in our wines, but who am I to argue?
Click to expand...

Only in zinfandel.
 
And, for those who think PN can't handle 100% new wood, there's always DRC, who reportedly use it every year on everything, regardless of vintage characteristics, and I don't hear anyone complaining. But I also don't know anyone with a disorderly palate who tastes them; they are not ours to diss. I bet the wood in them sucks too, at least before Y20.
Click to expand...
I sure don't get to taste them as often as I'd like to but I make it a point to have one as often as I can manage, because they're one of the few big-$$$ wines that make you say, "That was TOTALLY worth it" even after you've gotten the bill. I've never had one at any age where the wood was bothersome or prominent. Of course they use very high quality wood. You can also look to Dujac and Rouget for producers that make top-notch stuff with plenty of new wood.
 
Corton from DRC so far is only 50% new wood. Dujac is not necessarily 100% new wood for all wines, anymore. Rousseau Chambertin and CdB, as mentioned, and sometimes (until recently always) CSJ are 100% new oak, and Leroy is 100% new oak, as is the previously-mentioned Rouget and his ton-ton before him.

But the toast and wood choice will make a big difference -- one can have 100% new oak that doesn't show much oak, if that's what one really wants.

At the other extreme is Ponsot with 0%.
 
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