1-2-3..Leitz go!

B

Bob Parsons Alberta

Bob Parsons
Helping out at DeVines downtown always gives me a heads-up on recent wine arrivals. Co-owner is from Portugal so great selection there. The other owner was in Germany recently so recent listings have been of much interest. This Rheingau with excellent packaging caught my attention>

TN: 2011 Weingut Josef Leitz Riesling Eins Zwei Dry "3", Rheingau.

SC, 12.5% alc, $22 Cdn. From the Geisenheimer Rothenburg vineyard. New label , think Dragonstone has been noted elsewhere. Nice to know that David Bueker is really impressed with this weingut!

Color. Medium straw, not really yellow.
Nose. Lemon zest, peach, quince, some pear on day 2. "Sweet nose" from across the table.
Palate. Not really dry but very nice entry. Tangy, peach, apricot, minerally. "Still have some enamel on my teeth", easy-drinking style here, quite attractive in its way. Very slight effervescence, more apple on day 2 plus more mineral tones. As I said not that dry but this wine does appeal to this riesling drinker. Will be buying some more!
 
Bob,
I have enjoyed the 1-2-3 bottling in previous years ('07 and '08), but I'm surprised that you find it off-dry. True, there is some RS in there, but in my experience the perceived sweetness leans strongly to the dry side given the acidity. For drier Rieslings you'll probably have to look to Alsace or Austria (or spring for some of the GG bottlings if you can find them in the Frozen North).

Mark Lipton
 
I find it pretty dry as well, though dense. I think its a great value and widely available 'round here.
 
originally posted by MLipton:
Bob,
I have enjoyed the 1-2-3 bottling in previous years ('07 and '08), but I'm surprised that you find it off-dry. True, there is some RS in there, but in my experience the perceived sweetness leans strongly to the dry side given the acidity. For drier Rieslings you'll probably have to look to Alsace or Austria (or spring for some of the GG bottlings if you can find them in the Frozen North).

Mark Lipton
Click to expand...

I am always a bit puzzled about off dry Rieslings that supposedly taste dry because of their acidity. Eric Asimov also brings that up a lot in promoting these wines.
I have to say that I find even a lot of what is labelled "trocken" too sweet when I am in the mood for a really dry wine (and everything that is not carrying that label or that says "halbtrocken" or feinherb I would never remotely consider...they just taste sweet to me, no matter how balanced). Not that I do not like these styles, but I find they answer totally different needs (that I have far less often than the desire to drink something really dry).

Unfortunately the really dry Rieslings are not that common these days, especially amongst what is imported to the US. GGs very rarely fall in that category, unfortunately, though some wineries seem to return to a more austere style. I think lower level Austrians are indeed a good bet, while Alsace apart from a few names is not delivering anymore. Germany has quite a few offerings these days, but they rarely leave the country. Pfalz, Wuerttemberg and Franken are for me the best areas to find really dry and minerally Riesling.
 
originally posted by georg lauer:

I have to say that I find even a lot of what is labelled "trocken" too sweet when I am in the mood for a really dry wine (and everything that is not carrying that label or that says "halbtrocken" or feinherb I would never remotely consider...they just taste sweet to me, no matter how balanced).
Click to expand...

If trocken riesling seems too sweet for you, perhaps it is the fruitiness, not the residual sugar, that you don't like (inasmuch as trocken wines don't really have much, if any, r.s.). Go for more austere wines.
 
This is all very interesting and it is not the first time that my remark "I do not find it that dry" has raised some eyebrows. I could give you all many examples of "dry" wines that I have tasted, for example Touraine Sauvignon (very austere), some Vinho Verdes, Muscadet. At the same time I do seem to struggle with acidity and one of the posters has mentioned that here, so maybe this is all connected in some way?
Maureen mentions trocken and I can confirm that this is one style I am constantly looking for!
Isn`t this fun.
 
Liable Durbacher Plauelrain Reisling Kabinett Trocken 2010 is young and the fruit is prominent, but this is a very dry wine. Funny I was tasting this as I opened this thread.
 
originally posted by maureen:

If trocken riesling seems too sweet for you, perhaps it is the fruitiness, not the residual sugar, that you don't like (inasmuch as trocken wines don't really have much, if any, r.s.). Go for more austere wines.
Click to expand...

It is not the fruitiness that bothers me in any way, Riesling is half of what I drink in white for a reason. The problem is that most "trocken" has indeed residual sugar. It can legally go up to 9g/l and these days the majority of the wines labeled such are in the upper third of this. Wines below 2 or 3 g are a totally different animal than those with 8 or 9, no matter how much acid. The GGs are often even higher and thus not legally trocken. I find these wines with what in Germany they call a "Zuckerschwaenzchen" just terrible and extremely unappealing after a sip or two (they often seem quite charming first).

The reason for this phenomenon is that in Germany everybody was told for the last 20 years or so that a real connoisseur only drinks trocken, yet most people actually prefer it a bit sugary. So they give them sweet while the label says "trocken" to make people happy.
 
originally posted by georg lauer:
originally posted by Yixin:
Not that many of the great Austrians are in the 2-3g/l range either.
Click to expand...

which is why I often prefer the Federspiels.
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Which are typically above 2-3g/l of residual sugar as well, at least in the last 3 vintages I've had.

This is not directed at you, Georg, but so many people seem to think with, and consequently opine from their anus when discussing residual sugar in wines.
 
originally posted by Yixin:
originally posted by georg lauer:
originally posted by Yixin:
Not that many of the great Austrians are in the 2-3g/l range either.
Click to expand...

which is why I often prefer the Federspiels.
Click to expand...

Which are typically above 2-3g/l of residual sugar as well, at least in the last 3 vintages I've had.

This is not directed at you, Georg, but so many people seem to think with, and consequently opine from their anus when discussing residual sugar in wines.
Click to expand...

You are exactly right and I think they have the same issues we see in Germany so much. But the Federspiels are at least where you have some reliable choices that actually are dry.
 
originally posted by georg lauer:
originally posted by maureen:

If trocken riesling seems too sweet for you, perhaps it is the fruitiness, not the residual sugar, that you don't like (inasmuch as trocken wines don't really have much, if any, r.s.). Go for more austere wines.
Click to expand...

It is not the fruitiness that bothers me in any way, Riesling is half of what I drink in white for a reason. The problem is that most "trocken" has indeed residual sugar. It can legally go up to 9g/l and these days the majority of the wines labeled such are in the upper third of this. Wines below 2 or 3 g are a totally different animal than those with 8 or 9, no matter how much acid. The GGs are often even higher and thus not legally trocken. I find these wines with what in Germany they call a "Zuckerschwaenzchen" just terrible and extremely unappealing after a sip or two (they often seem quite charming first).

The reason for this phenomenon is that in Germany everybody was told for the last 20 years or so that a real connoisseur only drinks trocken, yet most people actually prefer it a bit sugary. So they give them sweet while the label says "trocken" to make people happy.
Click to expand...

just before he was exterminated, fatface said to his captors, "the basic point is balance, and soil. when the balance shifts, so does the focus." his bourgeois belief was that many of the sites that made great low alcohol rieslings did not have the terroir to make troken. and, also, in typical bourgeois revisionist style, he claimed that there were ignored sites in germany that do.

the poilitburo, in acknowledging the plumptreason, wish to point out the truth in the comments cited above.

r slicker.
 
originally posted by richard slicker:
originally posted by georg lauer:
originally posted by maureen:

If trocken riesling seems too sweet for you, perhaps it is the fruitiness, not the residual sugar, that you don't like (inasmuch as trocken wines don't really have much, if any, r.s.). Go for more austere wines.
Click to expand...

It is not the fruitiness that bothers me in any way, Riesling is half of what I drink in white for a reason. The problem is that most "trocken" has indeed residual sugar. It can legally go up to 9g/l and these days the majority of the wines labeled such are in the upper third of this. Wines below 2 or 3 g are a totally different animal than those with 8 or 9, no matter how much acid. The GGs are often even higher and thus not legally trocken. I find these wines with what in Germany they call a "Zuckerschwaenzchen" just terrible and extremely unappealing after a sip or two (they often seem quite charming first).

The reason for this phenomenon is that in Germany everybody was told for the last 20 years or so that a real connoisseur only drinks trocken, yet most people actually prefer it a bit sugary. So they give them sweet while the label says "trocken" to make people happy.
Click to expand...

just before he was exterminated, fatface said to his captors, "the basic point is balance, and soil. when the balance shifts, so does the focus." his bourgeois belief was that many of the sites that made great low alcohol rieslings did not have the terroir to make troken. and, also, in typical bourgeois revisionist style, he claimed that there were ignored sites in germany that do.

the poilitburo, in acknowledging the plumptreason, wish to point out the truth in the comments cited above.

r slicker.
Click to expand...
now everyone knows the truth, couldn't string it along longer than 24 hours?
 
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