An important scientific contribution by John Gilman
- Thread starter VS
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Oswaldo Costa
Oswaldo Costa
According to local enologists, something similar (or maybe the same) happens in Chile and Argentina: if they pick at the traditional European maturity point, the tannins will be too green, so they say they have to pick supermature.
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
Would canopy management help in this case? Trim leaves, slow sugar accumulation ... synchronize with tannin development.
Jay Miller
Jay Miller
Kevin Harvey would probably say that soil makes one of the biggest differences.
Florida Jim
Florida Jim
Maybe even stronger than that. Kevin believes in dirt.
Best, Jim
Oswaldo Costa
Oswaldo Costa
Mendoza is 33 degrees and 2500ft. Maule is 35 degrees and 500ft. Napa is 38 degrees and 200ft. The higher the latitude, perhaps the less you need to rise. I understand she's an admirable winemaker, but 38 is still rather low. Perhaps it's not surprising that she might have problems getting everything in sync without picking late. I totally take your original point about ocean currents, and I wish I had a way of incorporating them into this idea.
Jeff Connell
Jeff Connell
Cathy doesn't have problems. Look, we've all got problems, you and me - especially me. But relative to winegrowers anywhere, she doesn't have problems achieving balanced maturity in the vines, and she doesn't pick late. I shouldn't speak for her, but she does believe you are better off on the flat land of the Rutherford Bench than up on one of the nearby mountain slopes (where as high as you go, you will still be lower than the flatlands east of Colorado Springs). Mayacamas notwithstanding I think her case is pretty strong.
So let's all agree, the great vineyards are all between 45° and 49° (North) on a nice south facing slope (gentle or steep), between 200 and 600 metres in limestone and clay soil. Anyway, I agree - except for all the exceptions. But what if you are not in a privileged site in Western Europe? What if you are just wherever you are, and you want to plant vines anyway? Maybe somewhere in Mendoza or Manchuela. Maybe you have a hillside to plant on, even a mountain slope, or an alluvial river basin, or simply some terrain that gives a home to the vine. Rest assured that your wine is crap and someone on Wine Disorder will be happy to point that out.
So let's all agree, the great vineyards are all between 45° and 49° (North) on a nice south facing slope (gentle or steep), between 200 and 600 metres in limestone and clay soil. Anyway, I agree - except for all the exceptions. But what if you are not in a privileged site in Western Europe? What if you are just wherever you are, and you want to plant vines anyway? Maybe somewhere in Mendoza or Manchuela. Maybe you have a hillside to plant on, even a mountain slope, or an alluvial river basin, or simply some terrain that gives a home to the vine. Rest assured that your wine is crap and someone on Wine Disorder will be happy to point that out.
Oswaldo Costa
Oswaldo Costa
Thank you, both, I feel freer already.
Good, we're on the same page.
You're basically fucked, but can try to become one of the exceptions. Or make industrial wine, for which every place is dandy.
Be my guest, but don't claim that whatever elevation does to temperature and light will make it all right. Not impossible, as the exceptions show, but it's only a general rule.
I'm happy to drink exceptions, but I also want to understand how they might be exceptions. General rules, even with exceptions and, to some extent, tautological, help make a bewilderingly complex field a little less so.
Good, we're on the same page.
You're basically fucked, but can try to become one of the exceptions. Or make industrial wine, for which every place is dandy.
Be my guest, but don't claim that whatever elevation does to temperature and light will make it all right. Not impossible, as the exceptions show, but it's only a general rule.
I'm happy to drink exceptions, but I also want to understand how they might be exceptions. General rules, even with exceptions and, to some extent, tautological, help make a bewilderingly complex field a little less so.
Oswaldo Costa
Oswaldo Costa
Was just rereading this... Ah, the good ole' daze!
Jayson Cohen
Jayson Cohen
I missed this too. But I know exactly why.
I had some "except"ional Bandol and CdP last August at Chateau Ste Anne. I've known since the LDM days this was an "exception"al house but discovered first hand that the key to the domaine's success compared to the uninspiring Bandol and CdP found almost everywhere else is -- everything. Go figure, that. The domaine has great distribution locally in Provence. Not sure why we see so little of the wines now in the US. (If VS could be blamed for that, I'm sure someone would.) There is an importer still -- not LDM, but I couldn't make it out during the visit and web info is hazy at best -- but importer doesn't seem to be doing a good job. An opportunity.
Great Marc too. Not for sale I think.
Happy New Year all!! I'm off to the East side for some revelry. Might see some of you folks there.
I had some "except"ional Bandol and CdP last August at Chateau Ste Anne. I've known since the LDM days this was an "exception"al house but discovered first hand that the key to the domaine's success compared to the uninspiring Bandol and CdP found almost everywhere else is -- everything. Go figure, that. The domaine has great distribution locally in Provence. Not sure why we see so little of the wines now in the US. (If VS could be blamed for that, I'm sure someone would.) There is an importer still -- not LDM, but I couldn't make it out during the visit and web info is hazy at best -- but importer doesn't seem to be doing a good job. An opportunity.
Great Marc too. Not for sale I think.
Happy New Year all!! I'm off to the East side for some revelry. Might see some of you folks there.