Dinner at Jeff's

To Brian (and incidentally to Keith)... nebbiolo d'alba is nice but I was thinking of something more interesting. Hence, the wandering. (Also, I was hoping that people would mention their favorite less-expensive Piedmont makers.)
 
originally posted by Brian C:
Burlotto nebbiolo and Cantina del Pino barbarescos are no slouches either.
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I just ordered some Cantina del Pino and also Giamello Barbaresco Vicenziana to try. Have you tried Silvio Giamello's wines?
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
A couple things:
On the shnookery: The problem is how to scratch that nebbiolo itch. If $48 is too high then that certainly leaves out most barolo. In barbaresco, the Produttori is great but what else? Hence, True Believers wander out to gattinara, ghemme, lessona, valtellina, carema....
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Those are good points and something to think about. Our wholesale on the Produttori Crus are about what we could sell the Grumello for.
 
originally posted by Zachary Ross:

[...]

2010 Chandon de Briailles Pernand-Vergelesses Ile des Vergelesses lovely red fruit besmirched by a pronounced lactic note; it didn’t ruin it for me but it did for others.

[...]
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What's a lactic note? Is it textural or flavorous? I know the background of malo-lactic fermentation, but I'm not familiar this effect.

Thanks.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
originally posted by Zachary Ross:

[...]

2010 Chandon de Briailles Pernand-Vergelesses Ile des Vergelesses lovely red fruit besmirched by a pronounced lactic note; it didn’t ruin it for me but it did for others.

[...]
Click to expand...

What's a lactic note? Is it textural or flavorous? I know the background of malo-lactic fermentation, but I'm not familiar this effect.

Thanks.
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Lactic notes smell like soured milk or possibly yogurt. I get them very often on young red wines, especially Syrah.

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
originally posted by Zachary Ross:

[...]

2010 Chandon de Briailles Pernand-Vergelesses Ile des Vergelesses lovely red fruit besmirched by a pronounced lactic note; it didn’t ruin it for me but it did for others.

[...]
Click to expand...

What's a lactic note? Is it textural or flavorous? I know the background of malo-lactic fermentation, but I'm not familiar this effect.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

diacetyl - like movie theater popcorn
 
Sorry to muddle, but I think of diacetyl as "buttery." I think of "lactic" as a creamy texture and sometimes milky aroma that I get some in young syrah. It is very prominent in some fancy Napa cabs--I think of Grace Family as the archetype.

So just as Jancis' article in the FT suggested you try La Tache if you really want to know what PN tastes like, you could also try Grace Family cab to know what I mean by "lactic."
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
Sorry to muddle, but I think of diacetyl as "buttery." I think of "lactic" as a creamy texture and sometimes milky aroma that I get some in young syrah. It is very prominent in some fancy Napa cabs--I think of Grace Family as the archetype.

So just as Jancis' article in the FT suggested you try La Tache if you really want to know what PN tastes like, you could also try Grace Family cab to know what I mean by "lactic."
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Since the wine in question was red, I'm guessing this is what was meant. In white wines, particularly Chardonnay, one does find the taste of movie theater buttered popcorn, which I have heard attributed to malolactic, and that makes sense.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
Sorry to muddle, but I think of diacetyl as "buttery." I think of "lactic" as a creamy texture and sometimes milky aroma that I get some in young syrah. It is very prominent in some fancy Napa cabs--I think of Grace Family as the archetype.

So just as Jancis' article in the FT suggested you try La Tache if you really want to know what PN tastes like, you could also try Grace Family cab to know what I mean by "lactic."
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Yes, diacetyl "buttered popcorn" is quite distinct from the aromas I describe as "lactic." Someone once suggested a particular lactone as the source, but I can't recall the details.

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Is the cause known? Do the red wines outgrow it?
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I've always suspected that they're just a remnant of fermentation, and red wines most certainly outgrow it. Try a Gonon St. Joseph at release and again at BJ's rule of 15 age and I think you'll see what I mean.

Mark Lipton
 
Actually, CdB Ile is one of a few wines that I try to buy every year, and I'm just organizing my order for the 2010. So I'm mildly concerned about ordering a flawed wine.
 
...on the leftovers:
- Allemand, Ar.Pe.Pe, and Remizieres went to their various fates on the night of
- Grillons and Nusserhof are OK but starting to fade away
- Illaria, ESJ, and Rowdy are rock solid
- the rest have oxidized, more or less badly (e.g., the Tissot reminds me of creamed corn)
 
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by SFJoe:
Sorry to muddle, but I think of diacetyl as "buttery." I think of "lactic" as a creamy texture and sometimes milky aroma that I get some in young syrah. It is very prominent in some fancy Napa cabs--I think of Grace Family as the archetype.

So just as Jancis' article in the FT suggested you try La Tache if you really want to know what PN tastes like, you could also try Grace Family cab to know what I mean by "lactic."
Click to expand...

Yes, diacetyl "buttered popcorn" is quite distinct from the aromas I describe as "lactic." Someone once suggested a particular lactone as the source, but I can't recall the details.

Mark Lipton
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Distinct for me too. Early last year the 2007 Foradori Teroldegos (regular and Granato) at a tasting where Elisabetta was pouring were super lactic (in the yoghurt sense). I asked her about it and she said it was a "caratteristica dell'annata" (characteristic of the vintage). So, go figure.
 
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