Da Other Prof at Il Corso (Nov 16, 2012)

[Jeff Grossman]

attendees: Jonathan Loesberg, Cliff, Chris, Lisa, Jay, Arnold, Jeff

Da Other Prof is in town so we jeeb!

Donnhoff 2001 Niederhauser Hermannshohle Riesling Spatlese - 0802, pleasingly soft, exquisite riesling flavors (green grapes, orange blossom, rose, a touch of lychee)

Hermann J. Wiemer 2010 Riesling Dry - bone dry, simple

Dom. de la Pinte 2010 Arbois Trousseau - stinky nose, Jonathan detects one or two mercaptans in there... "a garbage nose", the palate is much better, bright cherries and talc, kinda yum

Ch. Giscours 1966 Margaux - perfect, this is claret; half an hour later it's falling apart

Mondavi 1977 Cabernet Sauvignon Reserve - sea water, which turns into corked

Forman 1987 Cabernet Sauvignon - also a bit pretty until the cork comes out

Tete 2005 Julienas Reserve - rich, viscous, young, a restrained bunch of flowers and blue fruits, Jonathan at first mistakes it for Rhone wine, this has years of life ahead

Confuron-Gindre 1996 Vosne-Romanee - tight and unyielding all night

Ar Pe Pe 1999 Valtellina Superiore Sassella Riserva "Vigna Regina" - tight at first, this eventually opens into a dark, dirt-y nebbiolo, Cliff speculates that the lesser wines are a better buy at this house

Texier 2000 Cote-Rotie VV - beautiful, red fruit, silky texture, feminine

Clerico 1997 Barolo "Pajana" - "California Barolo" says Chris, good balance, not as bad as we had feared, it even tastes somewhat like barolo

 

[Brad Kane]

Bummer about the '77 Mondavi, which is super when on. The '87 Forman is also quite nice when not marred by TCA.

Had the '01 Donnhoff Niederhauser Hermannshohle this summer and it was delicious and in the best shape of the '01 Donhoff's I've had in the past couple of years. Still had vibrancy and verve, though that seems a little at odds with your pleasingly soft note.

Sorry to have missed the prof's latest trip to NYC.

 

[Ian Fitzsimmons]

Opened an 05 Tete presige magnum last year and I won't be visiting that address again for a few years. Waaay young and sauvage.

Thanks for the notes.

 

[Cliff]

Thanks to everyone for a great time, Jonathan for the occasion, Brad for the table, and Jeff for the speedy notes. It was interesting to see Jeff ushered to the table as Mr. Kane. The food at Il Corso was delicious, as usual.

I think the Donnhoff could have used a little longer in the ice bucket, but we were short on whites and patience.

The Giscours was beautiful while it was beautiful. I liked the Forman quite a lot as well. The Ar Pe Pe got double decanted and was at its best after about 2-3 hrs. It's very nice, delicate, with lovely texture and aromatics. But I don't think it has great depth, or interest commensurate to the price at this point. Maybe it will? Jeff, I take it you mean dirt-y in the sense of earthy?

Who knew that Texier guy can make wine? This bottle was terrific. Great now; no rush.

I actually liked the Clerico.

 

[Chris Coad]

I liked the Pajama wine, too. Sadly, the Giscours had gone rather belly-up by the time I got around to it.

Man, that Loesberg can talk up a storm. Every ten minutes or so a subject would come up that I know a little bit about, but by the time I could form a coherent sentence about post-WWI naval architecture the conversation would already have gone off on a tangent about the sartorial habits of obscure Victorian novelists.

Common theme? Curse my slowness!

 

[Jeff Grossman]

Had the '01 Donnhoff Niederhauser Hermannshohle this summer and it was delicious and in the best shape of the '01 Donhoff's I've had in the past couple of years. Still had vibrancy and verve, though that seems a little at odds with your pleasingly soft note.

This bottle was not so vigorous as yours was, to hear you tell it.

The Giscours was beautiful while it was beautiful.

Yes, I forgot to mention that the wine started to crack up after 20 minutes or so.

Jeff, I take it you mean dirt-y in the sense of earthy?

Yes.

Man, that Loesberg can talk up a storm. Every ten minutes or so a subject would come up that I know a little bit about, but by the time I could form a coherent sentence about post-WWI naval architecture the conversation would already have gone off on a tangent about the sartorial habits of obscure Victorian novelists.

 

[Cliff]

You don't see too many dreadnoughts after World War I, certainly not many new ones. After Jutland, the ships got redesigned and given different names, and the British, in particular (HMS), weren't exactly in a position to buy.

 

[Jonathan Loesberg]

Thanks to everyone for this. Special thanks to Jay for Giscours, which, as everybody has said, was very nice while it was very nice, before it wasn't anymore. I also liked the Ar Pe Pe (which I have never had before and know nothing about)from the first moment in my glass.

Talking up a storm is a job requirement of Lit. professors. Since we actually know nothing except what is in novels and poems (in other words things that don't exist and have no use), we have to pick up and drop conversational topics quickly before people find us out.

 

[SFJoe]

originally posted by Cliff:
You don't see too many dreadnoughts after World War I, certainly not many new ones. After Jutland, the ships got redesigned and given different names, and the British, in particular (HMS), weren't exactly in a position to buy.

What was the redesign?

 

[Cliff]

As I recall, they beefed up the armor on the next generation of battle cruisers -- esp. the American and Japanese versions.

 

[Cliff]

originally posted by Brad Kane:

Had the '01 Donnhoff Niederhauser Hermannshohle this summer and it was delicious and in the best shape of the '01 Donhoff's I've had in the past couple of years. Still had vibrancy and verve, though that seems a little at odds with your pleasingly soft note.

Are you talking about the bottle we had in June? That came from the same stash; I think the biggest difference was serving temperature.

 

[Ian Fitzsimmons]

originally posted by Cliff:
As I recall, they beefed up the armor on the next generation of battle cruisers -- esp. the American and Japanese versions.

'Dreadnought' is simply what the biggest ships of the line were called before 'battleship' come into common usage, no? The one in the photo just happens to be named 'HMS Dreadnought."

Between the WWs, development was, dinosaur-style, towards ever-heavier armor and armaments, culminating in three-gun main turrets (16" on US ships and 18" on Japanese). Germans (e.g., the Bismark), Brits, Americans, Japanese all built these things up into WWII, when the superior destructive power at range of aircraft carriers became obvious, especially in Pacific theater battles like Midway.

 

[Cliff]

Most dreadnoughts were scrapped under the terms of the Washington Naval Treaty. The picture is likely the 1906 version (notice the 12" guns) :

Loading…

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Chris Coad]

originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:

originally posted by Cliff:
As I recall, they beefed up the armor on the next generation of battle cruisers -- esp. the American and Japanese versions.

'Dreadnought' is simply what the biggest ships of the line were called before 'battleship' come into common usage, no? The one in the photo just happens to be named 'HMS Dreadnought."

Between the WWs, development was, dinosaur-style, towards ever-heavier armor and armaments, culminating in three-gun main turrets (16" on US ships and 18" on Japanese). Germans (e.g., the Bismark), Brits, Americans, Japanese all built these things up into WWII, when the superior destructive power at range of aircraft carriers became obvious, especially in Pacific theater battles like Midway.

To certain visionaries, it was obvious well before that.

Mitchell served in France during World War I and, by the conflict's end, commanded all American air combat units in that country. After the war, he was appointed deputy director of the Air Service and began advocating increased investment in air power, believing that this would prove vital in future wars. He argued particularly for the ability of bombers to sink battleships and organized a series of bombing runs against stationary ships designed to test the idea.

He antagonized many people in the Army with his arguments and criticism and, in 1925, was returned to his permanent rank of Colonel. Later that year, he was court-martialed for insubordination after accusing Army and Navy leaders of an "almost treasonable administration of the national defense" for investing in battleships instead of aircraft carriers. He resigned from the service shortly afterward.

 

[Jonathan Loesberg]

originally posted by Chris Coad:

originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:

originally posted by Cliff:
As I recall, they beefed up the armor on the next generation of battle cruisers -- esp. the American and Japanese versions.

'Dreadnought' is simply what the biggest ships of the line were called before 'battleship' come into common usage, no? The one in the photo just happens to be named 'HMS Dreadnought."

Between the WWs, development was, dinosaur-style, towards ever-heavier armor and armaments, culminating in three-gun main turrets (16" on US ships and 18" on Japanese). Germans (e.g., the Bismark), Brits, Americans, Japanese all built these things up into WWII, when the superior destructive power at range of aircraft carriers became obvious, especially in Pacific theater battles like Midway.

To certain visionaries, it was obvious well before that.

Mitchell served in France during World War I and, by the conflict's end, commanded all American air combat units in that country. After the war, he was appointed deputy director of the Air Service and began advocating increased investment in air power, believing that this would prove vital in future wars. He argued particularly for the ability of bombers to sink battleships and organized a series of bombing runs against stationary ships designed to test the idea.

He antagonized many people in the Army with his arguments and criticism and, in 1925, was returned to his permanent rank of Colonel. Later that year, he was court-martialed for insubordination after accusing Army and Navy leaders of an "almost treasonable administration of the national defense" for investing in battleships instead of aircraft carriers. He resigned from the service shortly afterward.

Isn't there an old flick with Gary Cooper playing Billy Mitchell? I think I saw it on something like Million Dollar Movie a few eons ago.

 

[Chris Coad]

originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:

originally posted by Chris Coad:

originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:

originally posted by Cliff:
As I recall, they beefed up the armor on the next generation of battle cruisers -- esp. the American and Japanese versions.

'Dreadnought' is simply what the biggest ships of the line were called before 'battleship' come into common usage, no? The one in the photo just happens to be named 'HMS Dreadnought."

Between the WWs, development was, dinosaur-style, towards ever-heavier armor and armaments, culminating in three-gun main turrets (16" on US ships and 18" on Japanese). Germans (e.g., the Bismark), Brits, Americans, Japanese all built these things up into WWII, when the superior destructive power at range of aircraft carriers became obvious, especially in Pacific theater battles like Midway.

To certain visionaries, it was obvious well before that.

Mitchell served in France during World War I and, by the conflict's end, commanded all American air combat units in that country. After the war, he was appointed deputy director of the Air Service and began advocating increased investment in air power, believing that this would prove vital in future wars. He argued particularly for the ability of bombers to sink battleships and organized a series of bombing runs against stationary ships designed to test the idea.

He antagonized many people in the Army with his arguments and criticism and, in 1925, was returned to his permanent rank of Colonel. Later that year, he was court-martialed for insubordination after accusing Army and Navy leaders of an "almost treasonable administration of the national defense" for investing in battleships instead of aircraft carriers. He resigned from the service shortly afterward.

Isn't there an old flick with Gary Cooper playing Billy Mitchell? I think I saw it on something like Million Dollar Movie a few eons ago.

Yep, The Court-Martial of Billy Mitchell. Otto Preminger directed, and it was both Elizabeth Montgomery and Jack Lord's film debuts. Good cast (Ralph Bellamy, Darren McGavin, Rod Steiger, Peter Graves), good old flick.

 

[Unknown]

I had 01 Kirschheck Spatlese this week. from an 11C cellar. Bright, fresh, plenty of integrated acidity, pale fruits, just entering its window of drinkability. I imagine NHH from the same cellar should not be touched.

 

[Cliff]

Chelsea is not quite that chilly.

 

[Brad Kane]

All the best Donnhoffs come from Bueker's cellar, apparently.

 

[Jeff Grossman]

originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
...the superior destructive power at range of aircraft carriers became obvious, especially in Pacific theater battles like Midway.

The Tirpitz, for all its mighty guns and armor, spent a large portion of WWII in dry dock being repaired from damage taken from air strikes. Ultimately, an air strike destroyed her.