This winemaker

[SFJoe]

originally posted by MLipton:

originally posted by SFJoe:
Whole-cluster commentaryFrom Jamie Goode:

Friday troll come early this week??

Mark Lipton

Got it in one!

 

[Yixin]

originally posted by Hank Beckmeyer:
Interesting. My experience with adding back stems to destemmed fruit is not positive. Much more of a green, stemmy note than if you just use whole, non-destemmed fruit.

Did you use the stainless steel mesh baskets (patent pending)?

I think adding Cornas stems to Vosne grapes is the way to go.

 

[Chris Coad]

originally posted by Yixin:

originally posted by JasonA:
Of all the questions it begs

Coad!

RAISES.

 

[Ian Fitzsimmons]

originally posted by SFJoe:
Whole-cluster commentaryFrom Jamie Goode:
[...]

See, Eric, you aren't taking enough control. Your (hypothetical) Cornas could also have a "lush creamy feel to the palate" if you were doing it right.

This process sounds ickily manipulative, like adding 'natural' wood chips. But is it that much different than fermenting whole-cluster and racking off the gross lees when you feel the time is right? (Ducking).

 

[Unknown]

originally posted by Yixin:
I think adding Cornas stems to Vosne grapes is the way to go.

I think adding Vosne beets to my bortsch is the way to go

 

[Ian Fitzsimmons]

In steel mesh baskets.

 

[Hank Beckmeyer]

originally posted by Yixin:

originally posted by Hank Beckmeyer:
Interesting. My experience with adding back stems to destemmed fruit is not positive. Much more of a green, stemmy note than if you just use whole, non-destemmed fruit.

Did you use the stainless steel mesh baskets (patent pending)?

I'm waiting for the clay mesh baskets to come out.

I think adding Cornas stems to Vosne grapes is the way to go.

Somebody will eventually come out with a "stems-in-a-bag" type product, maybe like matcha, that you can just add to your must. For that "authentic, old-world wine feel".

 

[Hank Beckmeyer]

originally posted by Mike Hinds:

originally posted by Hank Beckmeyer:
Interesting. My experience with adding back stems to destemmed fruit is not positive. Much more of a green, stemmy note than if you just use whole, non-destemmed fruit.

Gideon at Clos Saron adds back stems to quite good effect. I'm wondering why the difference, given that you work with similar varieties in a (fairly) similar part of the world at (fairly) similar levels of ripeness... Or if the difference is about judgment of the finished wine.

I don't know. Maybe the broken stems add more of a green, sappy note. Whole clusters, foot trodden, come through fermentations intact, yet add a light, pleasant herbal note, and tend to dampen the rather exuberant fruit we get here.

 

[VLM]

originally posted by .sasha:

originally posted by Yixin:
I think adding Cornas stems to Vosne grapes is the way to go.

I think adding Vosne beets to my bortsch is the way to go

Dugat-Py!!!

 

[Brézème]

Powdered stems would be nice. Or stems extract in ethanol or in glycerol, so easy to use.
Organic or BDynamic if possible.

Creamy Cornas... How nice. Juge would love such an adjective. Almost each time I see him he says : Ah Eric, I've fought all my live against people who wanted me to make my cornas nicer (aimable en français) by using new oak, picking late or destemming. But you see syrah is not supposed to be nice (la syrah ça ne doit pas faire un vin aimable).

Hank,

Due to the hail in the old vines in Brézème this year, I decided to destem 100%, sort away all the dry berries and then put the stems back in the tank for maceration.
The stems were dark brown and turning dry already. I am very pleased with the result, so far.
No dryness or greeness.

 

[Yixin]

originally posted by Brézème:
Creamy Cornas... How nice. Juge would love such an adjective. Almost each time I see him he says : Ah Eric, I've fought all my live against people who wanted me to make my cornas nicer (aimable en français) by using new oak, picking late or destemming. But you see syrah is not supposed to be nice (la syrah ça ne doit pas faire un vin aimable).

Says the man who made the only Cornas pretty enough to make me cry. Him and Vincent Gasse were what I started with.

 

[Ian Fitzsimmons]

originally posted by Brézème:
[...]

Hank,

Due to the hail in the old vines in Brézème this year, I decided to destem 100%, sort away all the dry berries and then put the stems back in the tank for maceration.
The stems were dark brown and turning dry already. I am very pleased with the result, so far.
No dryness or greeness.

It's important, isn't it? that your stems are nicely mature, as you described them earlier in the thread. I still imagine that a healthy soil ecology, unimpaired by pesticides, helps here, by delivering nutrients to vine roots efficiently.

 

[Sharon Bowman]

originally posted by Brézème:
la syrah ça ne doit pas faire un vin aimable

Contrary to grenache?...

 

[VLM]

originally posted by Sharon Bowman:

originally posted by Brézème:
la syrah ça ne doit pas faire un vin aimable

Contrary to grenache?...

Yes.

 

[VLM]

originally posted by Brézème:
Powdered stems would be nice. Or stems extract in ethanol or in glycerol, so easy to use.
Organic or BDynamic if possible.

Creamy Cornas... How nice. Juge would love such an adjective. Almost each time I see him he says : Ah Eric, I've fought all my live against people who wanted me to make my cornas nicer (aimable en français) by using new oak, picking late or destemming. But you see syrah is not supposed to be nice (la syrah ça ne doit pas faire un vin aimable).

Hank,

Due to the hail in the old vines in Brézème this year, I decided to destem 100%, sort away all the dry berries and then put the stems back in the tank for maceration.
The stems were dark brown and turning dry already. I am very pleased with the result, so far.
No dryness or greeness.

So, is the basket thing a bad idea? It seems manipulative, but is it that much different than the above?

I would posit that what Eric is describing is no one's idea of traditional, it's Eric experimenting again.

Does it come down to intention?

 

[VLM]

originally posted by Yixin:

originally posted by Brézème:
Creamy Cornas... How nice. Juge would love such an adjective. Almost each time I see him he says : Ah Eric, I've fought all my live against people who wanted me to make my cornas nicer (aimable en français) by using new oak, picking late or destemming. But you see syrah is not supposed to be nice (la syrah ça ne doit pas faire un vin aimable).

Says the man who made the only Cornas pretty enough to make me cry. Him and Vincent Gasse were what I started with.

My Cornas started with Verset, thus aimable was never part of the equation. I discovered Juge after that and Clape. Maybe because of where I started, nothing has ever struck the same profound chord with me that Verset can.

The Gasse I know was Lafoy et Gasse in Cote-Rotie. Amazingly inconsistent, sometimes beautiful wines.

 

[SFJoe]

originally posted by VLM:

Does it come down to intention?

Sure does if your intention is creamy Cornas.

What a revolting idea.

 

[Yixin]

Same Gasse. Trollat gets a lot of love (rightly), but Gasse made haunting St-Joseph. Not as long-lived, but with a purity, especially in hot vintages, that was instructive. Try the 1997 some time.

 

[Jeff Grossman]

originally posted by VLM:
I would posit that what Eric is describing is no one's idea of traditional, it's Eric experimenting again.

The non-traditional part is the removal of bad berries? Or, the only way that stems go into the tank, in a traditional vinification, is with the berries still on?

 

[Unknown]

originally posted by VLM:
My Cornas started with Verset, thus aimable was never part of the equation. I discovered Juge after that and Clape. Maybe because of where I started, nothing has ever struck the same profound chord with me that Verset can.

Yes, yes and yes.