D'Angerville in the Jura

[Ian Fitzsimmons]

[No message]

 

[MarkS]

originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:

I guess that's the final word, eh?!

 

[Sharon Bowman]

The rest is silence.

 

[Guilhaume gerard]

originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Is d'Angerville a schnook, in your view?

I've never seen him in line for an appointment with Lee Campbell

 

[Oliver McCrum]

originally posted by Tom Glasgow:
By comparison, Piemonte has 40,000 ha. But will the fallow 18,000 ha be eligible to be planted given Euro constraints?

Piedmont is a huge region. Perhaps a better comparison might be Barolo and Barbaresco, which together are about 1,500 ha.

 

[VLM]

originally posted by Oliver McCrum:

originally posted by Tom Glasgow:
By comparison, Piemonte has 40,000 ha. But will the fallow 18,000 ha be eligible to be planted given Euro constraints?

Piedmont is a huge region. Perhaps a better comparison might be Barolo and Barbaresco, which together are about 1,500 ha.

Only if you think the terroir of equal quality.

It doesn't matter a hell of a lot for sous voile wines, does it? It's a cellar made wine.

 

[VLM]

originally posted by Guilhaume gerard:
Buying Brignot's (almost dead) vineyards because you thought a bottle of Tissot chardonnay was burgundian.
It's hilarious really.

Is Brignot from the Jura?

 

[BJ]

Not the first - Rijckaert's been producing both for a decade.

 

[Ian Fitzsimmons]

originally posted by Guilhaume gerard:

originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Is d'Angerville a schnook, in your view?

I've never seen him in line for an appointment with Lee Campbell

A little obscure. Is it the article you think is hilarious, or d'Angerville's purchase.

 

[MLipton]

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by Guilhaume gerard:
Buying Brignot's (almost dead) vineyards because you thought a bottle of Tissot chardonnay was burgundian.
It's hilarious really.

Is Brignot from the Jura?

Yup, in Molamboz.

Mark Lipton

 

[Guilhaume gerard]

He actually lives in Japan now, and was not a native from the jura, but from bretagne (I think).

As for the wines, I just can't answer that really.

 

[Oliver McCrum]

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by Oliver McCrum:

originally posted by Tom Glasgow:
By comparison, Piemonte has 40,000 ha. But will the fallow 18,000 ha be eligible to be planted given Euro constraints?

Piedmont is a huge region. Perhaps a better comparison might be Barolo and Barbaresco, which together are about 1,500 ha.

Only if you think the terroir of equal quality.

It doesn't matter a hell of a lot for sous voile wines, does it? It's a cellar made wine.

I was responding to Claude's point 'If I had to guess now, the situation will end up somewhat like Piemonte, with prices going up to some extent .' I think Claude was referring to Barolo and Barbaresco, not Barbera d'Asti.

 

[Claude Kolm]

originally posted by Oliver McCrum:

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by Oliver McCrum:

originally posted by Tom Glasgow:
By comparison, Piemonte has 40,000 ha. But will the fallow 18,000 ha be eligible to be planted given Euro constraints?

Piedmont is a huge region. Perhaps a better comparison might be Barolo and Barbaresco, which together are about 1,500 ha.

Only if you think the terroir of equal quality.

It doesn't matter a hell of a lot for sous voile wines, does it? It's a cellar made wine.

I was responding to Claude's point 'If I had to guess now, the situation will end up somewhat like Piemonte, with prices going up to some extent .' I think Claude was referring to Barolo and Barbaresco, not Barbera d'Asti.

Exactly.

 

[VLM]

originally posted by Claude Kolm:

originally posted by Oliver McCrum:

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by Oliver McCrum:

originally posted by Tom Glasgow:
By comparison, Piemonte has 40,000 ha. But will the fallow 18,000 ha be eligible to be planted given Euro constraints?

Piedmont is a huge region. Perhaps a better comparison might be Barolo and Barbaresco, which together are about 1,500 ha.

Only if you think the terroir of equal quality.

It doesn't matter a hell of a lot for sous voile wines, does it? It's a cellar made wine.

I was responding to Claude's point 'If I had to guess now, the situation will end up somewhat like Piemonte, with prices going up to some extent .' I think Claude was referring to Barolo and Barbaresco, not Barbera d'Asti.

Exactly.

Yes, and I understood both of your points while making a slightly different one and kind of asking a question.

I'm curious what people think who know the area well about how much of a difference terroir makes for many of the wines. Conversations about the wines of the Jura tend to revolve around vignerons, methodology, and grapes but not terroir. So if those other things trump terroir, maybe vines can be planted in the Roero of the Jura and make fantastic wines.

So all you Jura-philes, what do you think?

 

[Claude Kolm]

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by Claude Kolm:

originally posted by Oliver McCrum:

originally posted by VLM:

originally posted by Oliver McCrum:

originally posted by Tom Glasgow:
By comparison, Piemonte has 40,000 ha. But will the fallow 18,000 ha be eligible to be planted given Euro constraints?

Piedmont is a huge region. Perhaps a better comparison might be Barolo and Barbaresco, which together are about 1,500 ha.

Only if you think the terroir of equal quality.

It doesn't matter a hell of a lot for sous voile wines, does it? It's a cellar made wine.

I was responding to Claude's point 'If I had to guess now, the situation will end up somewhat like Piemonte, with prices going up to some extent .' I think Claude was referring to Barolo and Barbaresco, not Barbera d'Asti.

Exactly.

Yes, and I understood both of your points while making a slightly different one and kind of asking a question.

I'm curious what people think who know the area well about how much of a difference terroir makes for many of the wines. Conversations about the wines of the Jura tend to revolve around vignerons, methodology, and grapes but not terroir. So if those other things trump terroir, maybe vines can be planted in the Roero of the Jura and make fantastic wines.

So all you Jura-philes, what do you think?

From what I've tasted, terroir makes a big difference in Jura wines.

That said, don't assume that all the best terroirs are already planted. That certainly was not the case in Cornas and Saint-Joseph when I began visiting the area in the 1980s and for many years afterward. Many of the best pre-phylloxera plots were left unplanted because the prices the wines brought at the time made the replanting financially uninteresting due to the amount of labor required to replant and to care for the vineyards. Today, many of those areas have been again planted because the prices their wines will bring have increased greatly.

 

[SFJoe]

originally posted by VLM:

I'm curious what people think who know the area well about how much of a difference terroir makes for many of the wines. Conversations about the wines of the Jura tend to revolve around vignerons, methodology, and grapes but not terroir. So if those other things trump terroir, maybe vines can be planted in the Roero of the Jura and make fantastic wines.

So all you Jura-philes, what do you think?

Huge differences, that I probably don't fully appreciate. But a neo-Burgundian winemaker like Ganevat (obscure joke) is at great pains to distinguish his grey from his white from his blue marls for whites, and reds often on clay and limestone, etc.

I don't have enough French to have interrogated him closely on the subject, but why wouldn't it matter in the Jura when it matters pretty much everywhere else making interesting wine in the world?

 

[Cory Cartwright]

Talk to anyone and they'll tell you that for instance, the small area behinf Montigny-les-Arsures is the superior terroir for trousseau, while Pupillin is superior for poulsard, and the good winemakers obviously further distinguish plots and yes, don't get them started on marls.

 

[Oliver McCrum]

How many great pieces of vineyard still lie fallow in places like the Jura, I wonder?

I saw a photo of a hillside in Boca, northern Piedmont, in 1910 and recently; it used to look like Barolo or Gevrey, and now is only very slowly being reclaimed from woodland. (The area used to have an excellent reputation, then fell on hard times between the wars.)

 

[Cliff]

originally posted by SFJoe:

originally posted by VLM:

I'm curious what people think who know the area well about how much of a difference terroir makes for many of the wines. Conversations about the wines of the Jura tend to revolve around vignerons, methodology, and grapes but not terroir. So if those other things trump terroir, maybe vines can be planted in the Roero of the Jura and make fantastic wines.

So all you Jura-philes, what do you think?

Huge differences, that I probably don't fully appreciate. But a neo-Burgundian winemaker like Ganevat (obscure joke) is at great pains to distinguish his grey from his white from his blue marls for whites, and reds often on clay and limestone, etc.

I don't have enough French to have interrogated him closely on the subject, but why wouldn't it matter in the Jura when it matters pretty much everywhere else making interesting wine in the world?

I think the Monkey is talking about the sous voile versions, which Ganevat makes, but not in the great profusion of the ouillé, if I'm not mistaken. That said, sous voile wines from Arbois and Etoile seem very different, though I can't separate producer from the equation.

 

[SFJoe]

Tissot [ducks, avoiding bricks from Talibs] bottled 3 different Vins Jaunes from 2003 by terroir. The wines are quite distinct, even from such a hot vintage. The details escape me. But you would not confuse the flavors.

There is clearly a large "terroir of the cellar" (or indeed, barrel) in voile wines from wherever, but I'm sure Liem and Barquin would argue that even as large a territory as Macharnudo is very different from Montilla, say.