Jonathan Loesberg
Jonathan Loesberg
I wish everybody would stop trying to make Muscadet more expensive. I'm quite happy the way things are.
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D'Angerville in the Jura
- Thread starter Claude Kolm
- Start date
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
originally posted by Yixin:
Michel Brégeon agrees with you, Ian. Although his comparison was with another of Kermit's boys, Coche-Dury, from an old Chez Panisse wine list. We were drinking the 2004 Réserve en cuve then (now bottled, and a rather nice wine), so disagreement was not an option.
Oh my.
It's an ill wind that blows nobody good, and I count among my blessings the affordable pricing of good Nantais (and Beaujolais - 2011 l'Ancien!) wines.
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
I wish everybody would stop trying to make Muscadet more expensive. I'm quite happy the way things are.
I really think that Marc, for one, deserves a more comfortable and secure living. And I'd be willing to pay more for that if others would.
Jim Hanlon
Jim Hanlon
originally posted by VLM:
I was teasing Cory a bit, but I am very much interested in his FIRST hand, on the ground experience. In places that I am familiar with, Chinon, Northern Rhone, Burgundy, Piemonte, it is pretty clear the role that terroir plays. You can see it in the soil and the lay of the land.
Two examples come to mind. First, Puffeney bottles two Poulsards. The Poulsard M comes from Montigny les Arsures, his home village, which, as Cory said, is generally considered a Trousseau terroir (I don't know why). The bottling that Puffeney labels just "Poulsard" comes from closer to Arbois itself, I believe. (Confusingly, Montigny lies within the Arbois appellation.) I know Puffeney considers the wines distinct enough to deserve separate bottlings. In my experience, the M is usually leaner and more mineral cut.
The second example is Ganevat. He has many whites, Chard and Savagnin, that see similar or identical elevage but are quite distinct. Next time you're in France, visit and taste from barrel with him, VLM. I think you'll find it quite helpful in addressing the question of terroir in the Jura.
(I realize this doesn't address the question of terroir expression in sous voile wines. I think Guilhaume should just ask Manu Houillon what he thinks.)
Sharon Bowman
Sharon Bowman
terroir expression in sous voile wines
Fino vs. Manzanilla.
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
terroir expression in sous voile wines
Fino vs. Manzanilla.
Inocente vs. Fino.
Jonathan Loesberg
Jonathan Loesberg
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
I wish everybody would stop trying to make Muscadet more expensive. I'm quite happy the way things are.
I really think that Marc, for one, deserves a more comfortable and secure living. And I'd be willing to pay more for that if others would.
Oh, don't start going all Rawlsian on me. I want what I want when I want it and I don't want to pay any money for it if possible.
originally posted by Jim Hanlon:
originally posted by VLM:
I was teasing Cory a bit, but I am very much interested in his FIRST hand, on the ground experience. In places that I am familiar with, Chinon, Northern Rhone, Burgundy, Piemonte, it is pretty clear the role that terroir plays. You can see it in the soil and the lay of the land.
Two examples come to mind. First, Puffeney bottles two Poulsards. The Poulsard M comes from Montigny les Arsures, his home village, which, as Cory said, is generally considered a Trousseau terroir (I don't know why). The bottling that Puffeney labels just "Poulsard" comes from closer to Arbois itself, I believe. (Confusingly, Montigny lies within the Arbois appellation.) I know Puffeney considers the wines distinct enough to deserve separate bottlings. In my experience, the M is usually leaner and more mineral cut.
The second example is Ganevat. He has many whites, Chard and Savagnin, that see similar or identical elevage but are quite distinct. Next time you're in France, visit and taste from barrel with him, VLM. I think you'll find it quite helpful in addressing the question of terroir in the Jura.
(I realize this doesn't address the question of terroir expression in sous voile wines. I think Guilhaume should just ask Manu Houillon what he thinks.)
Thanks, Jim. When you are in the vineyards, do these differences jump out?
I hoping to get to France in May and will try to visit my friend in the area. Maybe we can go taste at a few places and I can better understand what's going on.
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
terroir expression in sous voile wines
Fino vs. Manzanilla.
That could easily be the terroir of the bodegas, which makes a lot of sense to me with biologic sherries. There was a big difference between the flor at Maestro Sierra, Gutierrez Colosia, and La Cigarrera. They all attributed it to the bodegas.
JR had too much influence on me. I'm with the VLM.originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
I wish everybody would stop trying to make Muscadet more expensive. I'm quite happy the way things are.
I really think that Marc, for one, deserves a more comfortable and secure living. And I'd be willing to pay more for that if others would.
Oh, don't start going all Rawlsian on me. I want what I want when I want it and I don't want to pay any money for it if possible.
This is your logical mindset and marketing move if you don't own vineyards. Much like Champagne.originally posted by VLM:
They all attributed it to the bodegas.
originally posted by SFJoe:
This is your logical mindset and marketing move if you don't own vineyards. Much like Champagne.originally posted by VLM:
They all attributed it to the bodegas.
Oh for sure. Those were the folks I talked with, but I certainly could see and taste the difference in the flor and I don't think you can attribute that to vineyard, can you?
Honestly, people from this area are pirates, so who knows what to believe.
Jonathan Loesberg
Jonathan Loesberg
originally posted by SFJoe:
JR had too much influence on me. I'm with the VLM.originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
I wish everybody would stop trying to make Muscadet more expensive. I'm quite happy the way things are.
I really think that Marc, for one, deserves a more comfortable and secure living. And I'd be willing to pay more for that if others would.
Oh, don't start going all Rawlsian on me. I want what I want when I want it and I don't want to pay any money for it if possible.
There's probably some version of the difference principle that results in the conclusion of inexpensive muscadet. And when I put myself in the original position, under the veil of ignorance (all possible jokes already foreseen), I still find myself thinking that justice as fairness is best served by me, no matter who I turn out to be, getting all the cheap muscadet I want. I really don't understand how there can be two sides to this question. I mean who is this Marc guy anyway and why should I care.
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg: I mean who is this Marc guy anyway and why should I care.
He's the guy you want to be able to continue producing high quality Muscadet for your consumption for years to come.
Michael Lewis
Michael Lewis
originally posted by Rahsaan:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg: I mean who is this Marc guy anyway and why should I care.
He's the guy you want to be able to continue producing high quality Muscadet for your consumption for years to come.
Although, in what would be the terribly unfortunate event that he stopped making high quality Muscadet, which event we hope will never happen, he would make a darn good Santa Claus at the mall.
Jim Hanlon
Jim Hanlon
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Jim Hanlon:
originally posted by VLM:
I was teasing Cory a bit, but I am very much interested in his FIRST hand, on the ground experience. In places that I am familiar with, Chinon, Northern Rhone, Burgundy, Piemonte, it is pretty clear the role that terroir plays. You can see it in the soil and the lay of the land.
Two examples come to mind. First, Puffeney bottles two Poulsards. The Poulsard M comes from Montigny les Arsures, his home village, which, as Cory said, is generally considered a Trousseau terroir (I don't know why). The bottling that Puffeney labels just "Poulsard" comes from closer to Arbois itself, I believe. (Confusingly, Montigny lies within the Arbois appellation.) I know Puffeney considers the wines distinct enough to deserve separate bottlings. In my experience, the M is usually leaner and more mineral cut.
The second example is Ganevat. He has many whites, Chard and Savagnin, that see similar or identical elevage but are quite distinct. Next time you're in France, visit and taste from barrel with him, VLM. I think you'll find it quite helpful in addressing the question of terroir in the Jura.
(I realize this doesn't address the question of terroir expression in sous voile wines. I think Guilhaume should just ask Manu Houillon what he thinks.)
Thanks, Jim. When you are in the vineyards, do these differences jump out?
I haven't been in Puffeney's vineyards. Guilhaume and I just visited his cellar. Sometimes just looking at the vines and soil, there can appear to be differences. Other times not, at least to my amateur eye. Walking through the Cote d'Or without a map, I don't think I could immediately pick out the best terroir. And I doubt many others could, other than to say mid-slope, etc.
Christian Miller (CMM)
Christian Miller
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
I don't thing you need worry with d'Angerville (note that he's not using his name for the estate). I think he's doing it out of interest and passion and with great respect. I could think of some that might eventually go for profit and publicity, but so far . . . .
I agree, I love the attitude (or lack thereof) projected in the interview I read.
Christian Miller (CMM)
Christian Miller
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
I wish everybody would stop trying to make Muscadet more expensive. I'm quite happy the way things are.
I really think that Marc, for one, deserves a more comfortable and secure living. And I'd be willing to pay more for that if others would.
Oh, don't start going all Rawlsian on me. I want what I want when I want it and I don't want to pay any money for it if possible.
Then you won't get it, in the long run. The kids will move away and become computer programmers, or accountants, or mimes, or something. OK, maybe not mimes.