OK, I lie. Not really a meditation on points, thank the Noodle, we've had plenty of that. But Dierdre McCloskey's article on "Happyism" is a much broader critique of things in the same vein and might amuse some readers.
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Meditation on Points
- Thread starter SFJoe
- Start date
Thanks for that. I've always enjoyed McCloskey's proud crusade against the cult of statistical significance and one day that fight may actually be won.
On the happiness front, I love measuring things (even squishy concepts) and have thought about the happiness field. However, from what I can see, the best trends in behavioral work are away from surveys and self-reports (for all the reasons she states) and towards observation/measurement of actual behavior.
So, combined with all the other advances in measurement (e.g. brain scans) it seems like one ought to be able to make a lot of progress on this front (although admittedly while producing a ton of crap along the way).
On the happiness front, I love measuring things (even squishy concepts) and have thought about the happiness field. However, from what I can see, the best trends in behavioral work are away from surveys and self-reports (for all the reasons she states) and towards observation/measurement of actual behavior.
So, combined with all the other advances in measurement (e.g. brain scans) it seems like one ought to be able to make a lot of progress on this front (although admittedly while producing a ton of crap along the way).
Sharon Bowman
Sharon Bowman
originally posted by Rahsaan:
towards observation/measurement of actual behavior.
"He looks happy today"?
Happiness is a tricky one, as it's probably not a very coherent concept in the first place (as elaborated in more detail in the article).
But, for the stuff that I do, instead of asking people 'Do you feel minorities are a valued part of your country?' you can observe how they behave towards minorities in various real-life situations. For example.
Maybe people who think about it a lot will find new ways of measuring happiness. Or not.
But, for the stuff that I do, instead of asking people 'Do you feel minorities are a valued part of your country?' you can observe how they behave towards minorities in various real-life situations. For example.
Maybe people who think about it a lot will find new ways of measuring happiness. Or not.
Cole Kendall
Cole Kendall
I took courses from McCloskey back in the day (i.e., pre-Deirdre and the "crossing", around the time of the poker game mentioned in the aritcle) and have read most of what was written since(though I am behind on the recent big books). As Rahsaan notes McCloskey has made a lot of the difference between a large t-statistic and "economic" significance and criticized a lot of modern empirical economics.
The recent move to promote bourgeois virtues (the subject of the recent big books) appears to be at the heart of the matter here; we are richer therefore any quantitative measure of happiness that says we are not happier is wrong therefore we can toss most of the quantitative stuff out the window. Of course if we could all agree on what happiness was then it might be easier to agree on whether we could measure it or not.
The recent move to promote bourgeois virtues (the subject of the recent big books) appears to be at the heart of the matter here; we are richer therefore any quantitative measure of happiness that says we are not happier is wrong therefore we can toss most of the quantitative stuff out the window. Of course if we could all agree on what happiness was then it might be easier to agree on whether we could measure it or not.
originally posted by Cole Kendall:
Of course if we could all agree on what happiness was then it might be easier to agree on whether we could measure it or not.
I am no one's statistician, but most of the stuff that I see with stats is clinical data. In many cases, it is remarkably easy to achieve a significant effect on a measurement whose clinical significance is totally controversial or unacceptable to the regulators.
Endpoints are key.
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
U
Unknown
Guest
originally posted by SFJoe:
Meditation on PointsOK, I lie. Not really a meditation on points, thank the Noodle, we've had plenty of that. But Dierdre McCloskey's article on "Happyism" is a much broader critique of things in the same vein and might amuse some readers.
I had three champagnes with two disorderites last night; one made very happy, the other not too happy, the third pretty happy. We had three kinds of oysters, with identical results. I don't see what the problem is.
Sharon Bowman
Sharon Bowman
originally posted by .sasha:
I had three champagnes with two disorderites last night; one made very happy, the other not too happy, the third pretty happy.
Me, too, but I bet they were not the same.
U
Unknown
Guest
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
originally posted by .sasha:
I had three champagnes with two disorderites last night; one made very happy, the other not too happy, the third pretty happy.
Me, too, but I bet they were not the same.
Mine are interchangeable. Wait, does that support Joe's point?
kirk wallace
kirk wallace
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
originally posted by .sasha:
I had three champagnes with two disorderites last night; one made very happy, the other not too happy, the third pretty happy.
Me, too, but I bet they were not the same.
Can we agree that the '04 C-T had the best potential for the future?
Oswaldo Costa
Oswaldo Costa
originally posted by kirk wallace:
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
originally posted by .sasha:
I had three champagnes with two disorderites last night; one made very happy, the other not too happy, the third pretty happy.
Me, too, but I bet they were not the same.
Can we agree that the '04 C-T had the best potential for the future?
Only if in future we take out for the future.
Ken Schramm
Ken Schramm
Interesting, but she lost me at "God's measurement."
Such examinations of things which escape "God's measurement" inevitably offer infinite opportunities for name dropping and assorted intellectual "Can You Top This?" cleverness. That bait is well taken. Repeatedly. And, as is so often the case, we end up pretty much where we began, only now we know what "anthropologist Marshall Sahlins, says," and, "economist of culture Tyler Cowen often observes." ("more artists are alive today than any time before." Who'd have thunk it?)
She does manage to get to the essence of the bubble sort: "You can watch me making an actual choice at Manny’s between a pastrami sandwich or, for the same money, a corned beef sandwich. By my choice, I reveal that I get more pleasure from the pastrami. I rank the two in order." WOTN, finally clarified. How nice. Bless His appendage.
Hang on, let me turn down the Sarcasmatron. There.
Δ8561α on the despoiled Putnam scale.
Such examinations of things which escape "God's measurement" inevitably offer infinite opportunities for name dropping and assorted intellectual "Can You Top This?" cleverness. That bait is well taken. Repeatedly. And, as is so often the case, we end up pretty much where we began, only now we know what "anthropologist Marshall Sahlins, says," and, "economist of culture Tyler Cowen often observes." ("more artists are alive today than any time before." Who'd have thunk it?)
She does manage to get to the essence of the bubble sort: "You can watch me making an actual choice at Manny’s between a pastrami sandwich or, for the same money, a corned beef sandwich. By my choice, I reveal that I get more pleasure from the pastrami. I rank the two in order." WOTN, finally clarified. How nice. Bless His appendage.
Hang on, let me turn down the Sarcasmatron. There.
Δ8561α on the despoiled Putnam scale.
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
I'm +µ on this post.
My next shelf talker!originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
I'm +µ on this post.
kirk wallace
kirk wallace
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
originally posted by kirk wallace:
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
originally posted by .sasha:
I had three champagnes with two disorderites last night; one made very happy, the other not too happy, the third pretty happy.
Me, too, but I bet they were not the same.
Can we agree that the '04 C-T had the best potential for the future?
Only if in future we take out for the future.
Sorry. I've been away. Is it better if I clarify that I meant long in the future?
Oswaldo Costa
Oswaldo Costa
Much. Happy new year, Kirk!
David Erickson
David Erickson
originally posted by Ken Schramm:
Interesting, but she lost me at "God's measurement."
Such examinations of things which escape "God's measurement" inevitably offer infinite opportunities for name dropping and assorted intellectual "Can You Top This?" cleverness. That bait is well taken. Repeatedly. And, as is so often the case, we end up pretty much where we began, only now we know what "anthropologist Marshall Sahlins, says," and, "economist of culture Tyler Cowen often observes." ("more artists are alive today than any time before." Who'd have thunk it?)
She does manage to get to the essence of the bubble sort: "You can watch me making an actual choice at Manny’s between a pastrami sandwich or, for the same money, a corned beef sandwich. By my choice, I reveal that I get more pleasure from the pastrami. I rank the two in order." WOTN, finally clarified. How nice. Bless His appendage.
Hang on, let me turn down the Sarcasmatron. There.
Δ8561α on the despoiled Putnam scale.
Speaking of God, I have come up with a new (well, new for me) formulation to deal with point-chasers: "How are you going to know what to drink after Parker dies?"