I liked the 2001s. I kind of liked the 2002s. Haven't had the 2003s. But man, the 2004s were so sweet that I thought something was amiss. Franck is a pretty good farmer, from what I've seen, and it is possible to get above 13% alcohol naturally. But both bottles had notes of beet sugar on the attack, which has made me wonder about chaptalisation. Does anyone know? I presume Kermit still imports the wines into the States?
2004 Follin-Arbelet Corton and Corton-Bressandes
- Thread starter Yixin
- Start date
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Last year I could not get an appointment at Texier because Cambie was visiting for lunch the same day...
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
Going back and checking my notes, It looks as though I wasn't able to fit Follin-Arbelet into my schedule in 2005 to taste the 2004s. However, I think pretty much everyone chaptalized to a greater or lesser degree in 2004. I did taste several F-A 2004s from bottle in fall 2006 -- I did not think them top wines for what Franck is capable of doing, but I didn't find them flawed.
Kermit's only had Follin-Arbelet for a few years. Back in the mid-2000s, there was a different importer in CA and other parts of the U.S. The estate did (as it still does) have an outstanding agent for the U.K. (someone whom Brézème knows, too).
I might add that I don't think 8 years on is a particularly good time to taste red Burgundy, and although sometimes tasting in that period can be rewarded, often it can yield some weird and misleading results.
Kermit's only had Follin-Arbelet for a few years. Back in the mid-2000s, there was a different importer in CA and other parts of the U.S. The estate did (as it still does) have an outstanding agent for the U.K. (someone whom Brézème knows, too).
I might add that I don't think 8 years on is a particularly good time to taste red Burgundy, and although sometimes tasting in that period can be rewarded, often it can yield some weird and misleading results.
Claude, thanks. I don't have anything against chaptalisation as a practice, but the level of sweetness was out of the ordinary for Corton terroir, and certainly for what I remember of F-A. Stated alcohol on both GCs was 13.5%, which strikes me as high for 2004 (I recall seeing potentials below 13% for others, e.g. Lafarge, and further afield, Rousseau).
We also had 2001 Palliser Pinot and 2000 Pegasus Bay Pinot from magnum, which were strikingly reminiscent of modern Burgundy - quite slick, even sweeter than the F-As. I thought both were well-made, forward Vosne grands crus.
For what it's worth, I agree with you about drinking Burgs at 8 years; 10 years after bottling is typically when some of them start to be interesting. A bit like German riesling in that regard.
We also had 2001 Palliser Pinot and 2000 Pegasus Bay Pinot from magnum, which were strikingly reminiscent of modern Burgundy - quite slick, even sweeter than the F-As. I thought both were well-made, forward Vosne grands crus.
For what it's worth, I agree with you about drinking Burgs at 8 years; 10 years after bottling is typically when some of them start to be interesting. A bit like German riesling in that regard.
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
On New Year's Eve we had a 1997 Graacher Domprobst Kabinett from someone once accurately described by you as being cursed because he was only the second greatest producer of Wehlener Sonnenuhr. Fresh as a daisy from a vintage that at the beginning had appeared to be worrisome for its soft acidity. Everyone -- producers, importers, journalists -- got that vintage wrong and it has proved to be a real learning experience.
Did I describe him in those terms? That is funny.
I can add to the list of vintages where I'm revising my opinion: 1999, 2000, 2003 across Mosel-Saar-Ruwer, especially 2000 in the Saar (many are starting to come round now, even the highly-sulfured ones). 2004 in the Pfalz (look I never had much love for the wines and 2004s were awkward in youth). 2007 in the Savoie, especially further south and for Mondeuse. Etc. etc.
1982 Braune Kupp Auslese from Müller is really good now. The Le Gallais wines are unjustly ignored - the curse of being the second wine in a family with holdings in Scharzhofberg? (cf. Chave St-Joseph)
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Love 1997 GD Kabinetts from Schaefer. Both APs, I think they are #7 and #8 ( I am doing this from memory at the moment).
I must have missed the paper delivery on the day concerns were expressed, I've always liked the wines from that year, for balance. I understand why Saar and Ruwer could be preferred, but who is counting points around here.
I must have missed the paper delivery on the day concerns were expressed, I've always liked the wines from that year, for balance. I understand why Saar and Ruwer could be preferred, but who is counting points around here.
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Claude, are you optimistic about 2004 reds?
Bad timing at 8 years on notwithstanding, I am about as confused as I've ever been, by some margin. I am encountering three types of wines over the past year: (1) ugly (2) solid but quite uninteresting even potentially speaking and (3) mugneret-gibourg
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
Uh, it wasn't Willi Schaefer that I was referring to; rather, the virtually unknown Dr. F. Weins-Prüm.
Without a doubt, Willi Schaefer is the greatest producer in Graach (although Dr. F. Weins-Prüm often makes the greatest Graacher Domprobst Spätlese of a given vintage). Molitor, of course, makes the greatest Spätburgunder (!!) from Graach, and if you haven't had it, it's worth the search.
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sure - I wasn't assuming it was Schaefer.
Thanks for the tip!
Thanks for the tip!
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
I really don't taste them at this point. I drink Burgundies at 2-3 years old and then after 12-15 years. I really taste very little in between because one can be so badly misled. That said, I did have a very disappointing bottle of Chevillon Perrières last year.
An additional problem with 2004s is that I am not terribly sensitive to the "problem," but I hesitate to think of opening bottles for others because they may be sensitive. Speaking of Mugneret-Gibourg, this past fall, Marie-Christine told me that she has no problem with the vintage but that her sister, Marie-Andrée, cannot abide them at all.
Anyway, it is possible that the vintage will turn out poorly or properly; I have some optimism, but I'm not buying any more than I already have, at least until the bottom drops out of prices.
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
P.S. -- Dr. F. Weins-Prüm is not to be confused with Dr. Weins-Prüm. Kind of like Burgundy, ain't it?
Claude Kolm
Claude Kolm
They go outside sometimes. Philipp Wittmann + Eva Clüserrath is a pretty neat example. And of course, there's the longtime Wirsching-Saarstein example (not to mention Egon Müller's Central European connections). But, hey, Yixin, you had the best chances of any with the all-time queen any of us would die for -- even the same birth year.
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And I always thought that F. was merely added for emphasis!
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Neither am I. My issues are elsewhere entirely. VLM might be in the same boat, if I recall correctly.
Jay Miller
Jay Miller
Oddly, my the last 2004 I had (a Rousseau Charmes) was delicious but served blind I guessed it was a 70s Bordeaux because of the tobacco note (which was how the green showed to me at that point I guess).
But I never would have suspected it was so young which makes me even more confused as to when to open my 2004s.
But I never would have suspected it was so young which makes me even more confused as to when to open my 2004s.
Peter Creasey
Peter Creasey
I consider the 2004s to be idiosyncratic. Some have not shown well. Others have been quite rewarding.
. . . . . . Pete
. . . . . . Pete