You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Can 2002 Sancerre be premoxed?
- Thread starter Cliff
- Start date
originally posted by SFJoe:
It's an interesting question. I've felt the 2000s were moving faster than I expected. I have all of these noted for near-term drinking, for whatever reason they don't seem to be lasting like Cotats or Vatans.
Because they're not?
I have not had enough of them to really have a feel for what they should do. I drank my 2001's a little earlier, but I remember their having a different texture, depth, and structure, in a weaker vintage. This bottle didn't seem flawed in any of the typical ways, and the fill was perfect; it just wasn't all there.
Well, there is that.originally posted by Yixin:
originally posted by SFJoe:
It's an interesting question. I've felt the 2000s were moving faster than I expected. I have all of these noted for near-term drinking, for whatever reason they don't seem to be lasting like Cotats or Vatans.
Because they're not?
What do you figure for the differences--the Buster has the old vines and ripeness from the same hillside, more or less. Less rs than many Cotats.... What else?
U
Unknown
Guest
originally posted by SFJoe:
Well, there is that.originally posted by Yixin:
originally posted by SFJoe:
It's an interesting question. I've felt the 2000s were moving faster than I expected. I have all of these noted for near-term drinking, for whatever reason they don't seem to be lasting like Cotats or Vatans.
Because they're not?
What do you figure for the differences--the Buster has the old vines and ripeness from the same hillside, more or less. Less rs than many Cotats.... What else?
lots of so2 in cotat, not sure about vatan, relatively speaking
but I think pascal from that period is drier than labaille, or at least has tasted that way
not convinced, in general, that buster should age better than normale, at that particular address, based on nothing else than some shameful handwaving on my part
T-L probably has lower yields than Cotat, from what I've seen of the pruning. I think elevage is significantly different. Different press, different yeast population, different temperature, different vessels and different bottling time. RS, of course, but also sulfur, our good friend.
Sure, has to be more SO2 with the rs.originally posted by .sasha:
lots of so2 in cotat, not sure about vatan, relatively speaking
but I think pascal from that period is drier than labaille, or at least has tasted that way
not convinced, in general, that buster should age better than normale, at that particular address, based on nothing else than some shameful handwaving on my part
Labaille is usually pretty close to dry, IME. He used to be surprised that people liked Sancerre with rs.
My inventory says I have both 2002s in the cellar. How deep will your snowdrift be tomorrow?
Kay Bixler
Kay Bixler
I would guess that this is the natural aging curve for the wine and not pre-mox. The only Sancerre I've had any success cellaring is Vatan.
U
Unknown
Guest
originally posted by SFJoe:
Labaille is usually pretty close to dry, IME. He used to be surprised that people liked Sancerre with rs.
My inventory says I have both 2002s in the cellar. How deep will your snowdrift be tomorrow?
that's because we forgot to mention to him, at what age we like to drink sancerre
2 feet.
Jay Miller
Jay Miller
originally posted by Cliff:
Can 2002 Sancerre be premoxed?Brought the Thomas-Labaille Buster to dinner tonight.
Yes. If you search the archives you'll see that at one point I had 6 bottles of this that I drank over the course of a year (same source). Half were delicous, fresh, lively and young. Half were browning and oxidized.
That is fairly persuasive.originally posted by Jay Miller:
Half were delicous, fresh, lively and young. Half were browning and oxidized.
Sharon Bowman
Sharon Bowman
originally posted by SFJoe:
He used to be surprised that people liked Sancerre with rs.
Me, too.
Now I'm jaded.
originally posted by SFJoe:
That is fairly persuasive.originally posted by Jay Miller:
Half were delicous, fresh, lively and young. Half were browning and oxidized.
Yes. On the other hand, maybe one of the remaining bottles will be better.
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
Uncertainty cuts both ways.
nigel groundwater
nigel groundwater
Whatever else, would you really consider a 2002 Sancerre premoxed today rather than [perhaps] being a bit more ‘oxed’ or even just ‘more evolved’ than previous experience? Possible reasons including those already mentioned might be a subtle change/difference from others in SO2 usage, a particular set of corks, their bottling [headspace, purging] or any of the familiar input from the many discussions of poxed white Burgundy suspects.
We buy most of our Sancerre in Sancerre/Chavignol/Verdigny/Bue et al since we are there every year but reading threads here, including a current most interesting one, it seems that several Disorderlies are also in the Loire on a regular basis.
However we drink ours more or less from the off and very few, except some of the Bourgeois cuvees and the odd Dagueneau Pouilly and latterly Sancerre [only buy a few anyway] and Cotat wines [which I usually buy elsewhere in the Loire for difficulty of appointment reasons], survive over 10 years.
I appreciate that others may have developed a taste for older Sancerre but would be surprised if Jean-Paul Labaille thought his wines would generally be kept for 10+ years before drinking or would make them in a way that would reinforce that possibility. OTOH they seem to be made to age gracefully although I have never discussed that aspect/objective with him so may be plain wrong.
We buy the full Thomas-Labaille range, red, pink and white and enjoy them too much for any to survive beyond 10 years at least on a planned basis. For me their flavour profile [and of course price] is quite different to the Cotats wines which we do keep longer than most....sometimes.
Of course we also continue to buy some already older cuvees e.g. from Henri Bourgeois's retail/tasting facility up the hill in Chavignol [last year some 2001 La Bourgeoise; a cuvee which we have drunk up to 15 years old] and enjoy the added complexity that age can bring - usually to the oak influenced cuvees we find.
However we enjoy our Sancerre and Pouilly too from the start and then over a period of years and we find little need for us to wait a decade since we experience evolution as a changed flavour profile rather than as a more obviously attractive one.
One of the advantages of good SB, particularly at my age, is that most generally drink well, like Muscadet, from early in life even if time will produce more complexity in the best.
We buy most of our Sancerre in Sancerre/Chavignol/Verdigny/Bue et al since we are there every year but reading threads here, including a current most interesting one, it seems that several Disorderlies are also in the Loire on a regular basis.
However we drink ours more or less from the off and very few, except some of the Bourgeois cuvees and the odd Dagueneau Pouilly and latterly Sancerre [only buy a few anyway] and Cotat wines [which I usually buy elsewhere in the Loire for difficulty of appointment reasons], survive over 10 years.
I appreciate that others may have developed a taste for older Sancerre but would be surprised if Jean-Paul Labaille thought his wines would generally be kept for 10+ years before drinking or would make them in a way that would reinforce that possibility. OTOH they seem to be made to age gracefully although I have never discussed that aspect/objective with him so may be plain wrong.
We buy the full Thomas-Labaille range, red, pink and white and enjoy them too much for any to survive beyond 10 years at least on a planned basis. For me their flavour profile [and of course price] is quite different to the Cotats wines which we do keep longer than most....sometimes.
Of course we also continue to buy some already older cuvees e.g. from Henri Bourgeois's retail/tasting facility up the hill in Chavignol [last year some 2001 La Bourgeoise; a cuvee which we have drunk up to 15 years old] and enjoy the added complexity that age can bring - usually to the oak influenced cuvees we find.
However we enjoy our Sancerre and Pouilly too from the start and then over a period of years and we find little need for us to wait a decade since we experience evolution as a changed flavour profile rather than as a more obviously attractive one.
One of the advantages of good SB, particularly at my age, is that most generally drink well, like Muscadet, from early in life even if time will produce more complexity in the best.
U
Unknown
Guest
I am still waiting for reports on non-canine Monts Damnes 2002. My butler drank up all of mine. Jeff, Kay, Don ?
(SFJoe, 2 feet was a low estimate)
(SFJoe, 2 feet was a low estimate)
OK, won't look for you today. But Central Park only got 8", so I suppose the cellar will be open.originally posted by .sasha:
I am still waiting for reports on non-canine Monts Damnes 2002. My butler drank up all of mine. Jeff, Kay, Don ?
(SFJoe, 2 feet was a low estimate)
Nigel, I like my Cotats (and Vatans) with more age than you do. You buy a wider range of Sancerre than I do, too. Henri Bourgeois doesn't really find a spot in my cellar. But you are probably right about Thomas-Labaille.