Can 2002 Sancerre be premoxed?

originally posted by Oliver McCrum:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Clive Coates on Premoxhttp://www.clive-coates.com/observations/premature-oxidation
Click to expand...

Lovely example of reflex English anti-Americanism. What a wanker.
Click to expand...

best not go there. all cultures have reflexes like this, and none of them are pretty.

in re reefers, a perhaps salient point can be drawn from the connection between teh clivesters dating of the onset of the pox and the fact that one can use the mid 90s to draw a line in many french regions: before then, a "bad vintage" generally implied that the weather was too cold; from 97 or so onwards, it has generally meant that it was too warm.

fb.
 
originally posted by Oliver McCrum:
Yes, the new kind of bad vintage. Higher pHs and lower levels of (less effective) SO2 might explain a lot.
Click to expand...

plus, of course, the risk of wines suffering damage earlier in the transit chain is greater than it was in the past.

fb.
 
Speaking of premoxed Sauvignon Blanc, anyone try a '05 Francois Cotat Monts Damnes recently? A bottle last night, while controversial to some, was clearly oxidative in character, though the Sherry lovers at the table liked it just fine.
 
originally posted by Brad Kane:
Speaking of premoxed Sauvignon Blanc, anyone try a '05 Francois Cotat Monts Damnes recently? A bottle last night, while controversial to some, was clearly oxidative in character, though the Sherry lovers at the table liked it just fine.
Click to expand...
That's really Damnes with faint praise.
 
I'll give it more praise: I liked it quite well. It was soft and delicate, perhaps oxidative. Was it grassy and zingy like a very young Sancerre? No. But it was like the handful of other Cotats I have had, to a T. Perhaps the question is, is Cotat archetypally Sancerre, or just sui generis?
 
originally posted by Zachary Ross:
Perhaps the question is, is Cotat archetypally Sancerre, or just sui generis?
Click to expand...
I think they would tell you that they make it the old-fashioned way.

It might be a bit like having a conversation about styles of Rioja with VS, I'm afraid.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by Zachary Ross:
Perhaps the question is, is Cotat archetypally Sancerre, or just sui generis?
Click to expand...
I think they would tell you that they make it the old-fashioned way.

It might be a bit like having a conversation about styles of Rioja with VS, I'm afraid.
Click to expand...

But seriously, SFJ, you drink more Cotat than I, but having followed the brothers since '93, and the cousins in the modern era, I can't think of any bottles where "oxadative" seemed like what one got in a well shipped or well stored bottle.
 
And to boot, the bottle really was not poxed. It was delicious. I don't see much room for improvement and will pull my couple of bottles from storage in the realm of soon, but it was a lovely drink.
 
originally posted by kirk wallace:
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by Zachary Ross:
Perhaps the question is, is Cotat archetypally Sancerre, or just sui generis?
Click to expand...
I think they would tell you that they make it the old-fashioned way.

It might be a bit like having a conversation about styles of Rioja with VS, I'm afraid.
Click to expand...

But seriously, SFJ, you drink more Cotat than I, but having followed the brothers since '93, and the cousins in the modern era, I can't think of any bottles where "oxadative" seemed like what one got in a well shipped or well stored bottle.
Click to expand...
Certainly not.

Even if you meant "oxidative."
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by kirk wallace:
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by Zachary Ross:
Perhaps the question is, is Cotat archetypally Sancerre, or just sui generis?
Click to expand...
I think they would tell you that they make it the old-fashioned way.

It might be a bit like having a conversation about styles of Rioja with VS, I'm afraid.
Click to expand...

But seriously, SFJ, you drink more Cotat than I, but having followed the brothers since '93, and the cousins in the modern era, I can't think of any bottles where "oxadative" seemed like what one got in a well shipped or well stored bottle.
Click to expand...
Certainly not.

Even if you meant "oxidative."
Click to expand...

Oh, yes. That tew.
 
The bottle was not oxidative, or oxidized (whether prematurely or not), or anything like that. In my opinion (given my limited but nonzero experience with Cotat), it was precisely what it should have been, and most people at the table really liked it. Brad was in the vocal minority on this one.

ETA: But I do like Sherry, so my palate may be permanently corrupted.
 
originally posted by Michael Lewis:
The bottle was not oxidative, or oxidized (whether prematurely or not), or anything like that.
Click to expand...

Howard and I found it so much so that it was undrinkable and we dumped it, though I did go back to it at the end of the dinner to see if air had freshened it up. Nope. Mark thought it showed oxidation, but was not as put off by it as Howard and I were.

There was absolutely no fruit in the wine and given how much there is in say the '89, '96, others from the late '90s and early '00s I've had over the past few years, that's clearly not correct for the '05, which essentially showed toasted nuts with a bit of an alcohol burn on the finish.
 
Must have depended which side of the table one was sitting on, then. At our end,* after you commented that the wine was premoxed, we all spent several minutes discussing whether we could get any hint of oxidation at all. The general conclusion was no. Cliff later commented that after leaving just a single sip's worth of wine in his glass for half an hour, he could maybe start to detect the faintest whiff of oxidation, but that the wine was still delicious. I have no experience with this wine from the '80s and '90s, unfortunately, but the '05's profile was quite similar to an excellent bottle of '08 that I tasted a few months ago.

* Well, the table was circular, so it was not really an end.
 
originally posted by Michael Lewis:


* Well, the table was circular, so it was not really an end.
Click to expand...

Then it's no wonder that no one had an average reaction to the wine. After all, the ends justify the means.
 
which Howard? Not Camhi by chance? He could not tell Smirnoff from Aquafina. You tell him I said that ;-)
 
originally posted by .sasha:
which Howard? Not Camhi by chance? He could not tell Smirnoff from Aquafina. You tell him I said that ;-)
Click to expand...

Indeed and he'll be at my place for dinner tonight, so I will tell him. :-)
 
originally posted by Brad Kane:

There was absolutely no fruit in the wine and given how much there is in say the '89, '96, others from the late '90s and early '00s I've had over the past few years, that's clearly not correct for the '05, which essentially showed toasted nuts with a bit of an alcohol burn on the finish.
Click to expand...

I think the problem was not the absence of fruit but the absence of RS. It was bone dry and delicious.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top