The Meat

originally posted by kirk wallace:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Taking my teenager out to camp two hours north of SF next weekend so we'll finally get to try La Ciccia and Zuni Cafe, and pay a return visit to Aziza, so wonderful last year. At La Ciccia, naturally I'll be inclined to drink Sardinian, but since I'll be the only one drinking, I'm hoping there will be BTG pairing options at sub-Dettorian abv levels.
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At Zuni, whether or not you have the patience for the chicken -- We rarely do -- the raw bar is not to be ignored. The hamburger is also very good. The pizza is ok, but not worth the calories, given the other choices for pizza in SF. The Caesar salad is Vaux Le Voyage. The little gems maybe even better. And whatever sausage or pork part they are offering from the grill. With polenta if you are hungry. Some decent half bottle choices too. But I get to visit only 3 times a year. Others may have better recs.
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Thank you, will carry these instructions with me and implement. Should give us enough calories to fuel a Segway tour of the waterfront scheduled for the pm. Hope those things are not too hard to stand on.
 
originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by Bill Lundstrom:
Pre salting for 24-48 hours is essential.
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For the unenlightened among us: where does the salt go, and how much?

(I have not learned how to pre-salt but I certainly know enough to have never brined any bird.)
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Sprinkle salt ,about a tablespoon or so ,all over a 2-3 lb bird. Let it sit in a fridge uncovered for 24-48 hours. Best way to get crispy skin. And someow the salt , while it draws moisture out, will get reabsorbed into the bird. That's how I understand the concept.
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And if you're doing the Zuni method also carefully place some fresh herbs under the skin.
 
So, if everyone puts a fruit/veg into the cavity in order to slow down the cooking, why do I find recipes that suggest putting a few metal forks or spoons in there to make it cook hotter?
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
So, if everyone puts a fruit/veg into the cavity in order to slow down the cooking, why do I find recipes that suggest putting a few metal forks or spoons in there to make it cook hotter?
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I put half a lemon in for flavor. And I don't truss. But the breast still cooks first. If I remember, I might try the ice-pack method next time.
 
To add what I already posted, I never truss, start at 425 breast side down and cook about 1/3 of the total cooking time that way, flip bird over to breast side up and reduce temp to 375 for the rest of the cooking time.
 
It is advisable to start the bird breast side down so that the juices that are predominantly in the back can seep through the bird thereby adding moistness. Then flip it for browning.

. . . . Pete
 
Had a wonderful meal last night at La Ciccia, echoing much of Jim's initial post. Great calamari and octopus, very good pasta with botarga. Paired wines, accounting for the inherent limitations of being btg, were more interesting for being outside the usual repertoire rather than for themselves. The food is the star here, especially the seafood, with a hearty homemade feel.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Had a wonderful meal last night at La Ciccia, echoing much of Jim's initial post. Great calamari and octopus, very good pasta with botarga. Paired wines, accounting for the inherent limitations of being btg, were more interesting for being outside the usual repertoire rather than for themselves. The food is the star here, especially the seafood, with a hearty homemade feel.
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sometimes authenticity demands teh pure and simple. massimo, gg and i once had an occasion to sample a bunch of investment grade hooch with said fare. it only amplified all my usual aesthetic qualms.

fb.
 
originally posted by fatboy:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Had a wonderful meal last night at La Ciccia, echoing much of Jim's initial post. Great calamari and octopus, very good pasta with botarga. Paired wines, accounting for the inherent limitations of being btg, were more interesting for being outside the usual repertoire rather than for themselves. The food is the star here, especially the seafood, with a hearty homemade feel.
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sometimes authenticity demands teh pure and simple. massimo, gg and i once had an occasion to sample a bunch of investment grade hooch with said fare. it only amplified all my usual aesthetic qualms.

fb.
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I went in with the idea that non-marginal climate cuisine was best suited to non-marginal (but not VA laden) climate wine, but left unconvinced. Investment grade hooch would have been even worse, but perhaps some more acidic French whites and rieslings would have paired better.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:

I went in with the idea that non-marginal climate cuisine was best suited to non-marginal (but not VA laden) climate wine, but left unconvinced. Investment grade hooch would have been even worse, but perhaps some more acidic French whites and rieslings would have paired better.
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Hence, the remarkable collection of Italian wines on their list - 18 Vermentinos, wow.
Best, Jim
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:


I went in with the idea that non-marginal climate cuisine was best suited to non-marginal (but not VA laden) climate wine, but left unconvinced.
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all climates are marginal for something. even cali.

fb.
 
originally posted by Florida Jim:
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:

I went in with the idea that non-marginal climate cuisine was best suited to non-marginal (but not VA laden) climate wine, but left unconvinced. Investment grade hooch would have been even worse, but perhaps some more acidic French whites and rieslings would have paired better.
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Hence, the remarkable collection of Italian wines on their list - 18 Vermentinos, wow.
Best, Jim
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He's from Sardinia, I think he collects Vermentino.
 
The first white was a vermentino, kinda snappy, but ended candied. The second a vernaccia, vinified like a vin jaune, most interesting wine of the evening. Then came a Sardinian red, a bit of a loose cannonau, fruit slightly roasted, acidity slightly not enough, despite Phil's encomium that it was the most burgundian of their four btg cannonaus. We ended with a sweetie that was not balanced enough.
 
Wait a sec.... Quantity-wise, aren't four restaurant glass servings close to simply ordering a bottle?

ETA: I suppose you wanted variety, but my experience has shown that at every place (or nearly), the bottle selection has better things to drink than the glass. And quadruply so if you're going to dip in four times.
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
Wait a sec.... Quantity-wise, aren't four restaurant glass servings close to simply ordering a bottle?

ETA: I suppose you wanted variety, but my experience has shown that at every place (or nearly), the bottle selection has better things to drink than the glass. And quadruply so if you're going to dip in four times.
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Not to mention issues about how long the bottles have been open.
 
All true-nuff, but I pledged the Philip dude free reign over our monoalcoholic little monarchy, and since the food was spicy, I figured variety belonged in the same sentence. The same strategy shone brightly at Aziza. To be recounted as soon as I can rest longer than a sec.
 
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