Red Burgundy Stems: mit oder ohne?

originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:

Having reviewed Coates's and Norman's books, I realize description of stem-destem protocol is a standard element of domaine descriptions. I'm surprised to learn that, say, Bize and Pavelot in Savigny both include some stems, because the style of the wines from these two vinters seem fairly distinct.
Click to expand...

Where did you get that Pavelot includes stems (or did you mean to say Chandon-de-Briailles)? Hugues always tells me that he destems completely and Jasper Morris and Coates both report the same.
Click to expand...

I read it in Norman and Taylor, 2010 (p. 135); however, it's just a small percentage and only in 'ripe, healthy' years, excluding, for example, 2006-2008. I'd overlooked this qualification when I wrote the previous post; it fits in with your information, as well as my own (highly inexpert) sense that these wines are not 'stemmy.'
Click to expand...

My notes don't indicate that I asked him about 2005. Many people who ordinarily don't use stems did use some in 2005 and 2009. Looking at my notes for 2009, they indicate that I did ask Hugues and he said that the quality wasn't there to use them -- implying that he would have liked to have done so had he judged it possible.

His attitude is representative of a change that is taking place now in Burgundy. Many (but not all) producers who were dead set against use of stems some years ago are now more open to experimenting with them in certain vintages (and still others say that they would like to, but regard the process as too risky/difficult). It represents a big swing back from the 1980s and early 1990s when the great majority of producers abandoned use of stems. Henri Jayer had a big influence on them, and I think the lycée viticole must have begun teaching not to use stems around then, as I believe it still does today. Maybe Brézème can add some more insight.
 
originally posted by Kay Bixler:
I don't think they're obnoxious but have to admit I had no idea what "B'y" stood for until opening the thread. Now BoJo on the other hand . . .
Click to expand...

Oh no you didn't ...

Hm, okay, maybe B'y's too idiosyncratic. I thought it was transparent.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
I disagree with this opinion, despite my esteem for your judgement in general. For me, these shortenings are just easier typing, but if others here also think they're obnoxious, I'll forgo them in the future.
Click to expand...
I agree with Sharon. No one else here uses this morphology.

Around here "B'y" might as well be Bugey.
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
...

His attitude is representative of a change that is taking place now in Burgundy. Many (but not all) producers who were dead set against use of stems some years ago are now more open to experimenting with them in certain vintages (and still others say that they would like to, but regard the process as too risky/difficult). It represents a big swing back from the 1980s and early 1990s when the great majority of producers abandoned use of stems. Henri Jayer had a big influence on them, and I think the lycée viticole must have begun teaching not to use stems around then, as I believe it still does today. Maybe Brézème can add some more insight.
Click to expand...

You are hugely better informed than I am, naturally.

Eric's comment not long ago on his experience using stems was very interesting; I thought they opened a door to the idea that the effect of stem inclusion could be related to viticultural regime, along with other factors. Norman and Taylor write about changing trends in viticulture over the past several decades. Possibly stems have generically more to offer in regimes that minimize large-scale additions of fertilizers and toxins (pesticides, week-killers).
 
Eric is in transit back to France, he might not have a chance to look in on us. But he also mentioned the stem question at dinner Monday, and previously here:

Loading…

winedisorder.com
 
I think a lot of people would be very surprised if they knew how much chaptalisation still takes place in Burgundy. I have no problem with it, I must say, it's all part of the traditional process.
I was interested to learn recently that one very,very highly esteemed estate, historically not averse to stem inclusion, prefers to chaptalise with brown sugar rather than white.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
Eric is in transit back to France, he might not have a chance to look in on us.
Click to expand...

Alas for him, Eric is in fact in transit for Norway!

Ten days more on the road, he said yesterday.
 
originally posted by Tom Blach:

I was interested to learn recently that one very,very highly esteemed estate, historically not averse to stem inclusion, prefers to chaptalise with brown sugar rather than white.
Click to expand...
How come you taste so good?
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:

[...] No one else here uses this morphology [...]
Click to expand...

This isn't a compelling argument, it doesn't pack the punch of Sharon's rhymed rhetoric and mauling metaphor. But brainforking has no place in our gentle community, and I will mend my ways.
 
originally posted by Tom Blach:
I think a lot of people would be very surprised if they knew how much chaptalisation still takes place in Burgundy. I have no problem with it, I must say, it's all part of the traditional process.
I was interested to learn recently that one very,very highly esteemed estate, historically not averse to stem inclusion, prefers to chaptalise with brown sugar rather than white.
Click to expand...

Brown sugar has molasses in it. Perhaps a pinch of cinnamon while they're at it?
 
originally posted by Tom Blach:
I think a lot of people would be very surprised if they knew how much chaptalisation still takes place in Burgundy. I have no problem with it, I must say, it's all part of the traditional process.
I was interested to learn recently that one very,very highly esteemed estate, historically not averse to stem inclusion, prefers to chaptalise with brown sugar rather than white.
Click to expand...

Is it Dujac?
 
originally posted by Tom Blach:
I think a lot of people would be very surprised if they knew how much chaptalisation still takes place in Burgundy.
Click to expand...

on this bored? or are you talking about that new secret experimentation with fortifieds?

I have no problem with it, I must say, it's all part of the traditional process.
Click to expand...

which process? dealing with nature, covering up shitty vineyard/cellar practices or catering to the public demand for shit to pour over ice-cream? here at the fatschloß, we are totally down with 1 and 3, but are a little less enamored with 2.

fb.
 
Occasional use of stems is a wonderful thing, but there are certain places, such as Nuits ( check out dom de l'arlot ) where the practice seems unwise
 
It certainly is easy to write BJ. Saved thousands of hours over the course of my life, in fact. Efficiency!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top