TN: In the Cellar (May 25, 2013)

J

Jeff Grossman

Jeff Grossman
attendees: Jay, Jeff, Ray, Joe (not SF) and his sister and BIL, Tim

I arrived first and, with several hours available, I opened Cantina Ar Pe Pe 2004 Valtellina Superiore Grumello Riserva "Rocca de Piro" because there would be time for it to open and develop. A nice bottle of this: mountain wine, crisp and pure, bright cherry and roses nebbiolo, some dirt but no tar; vini di meditazione.

After a while, Jay arrives, aflutter, but he goes swiftly to work and opens H. Lignier 1995 Chambolle-Musigny which is another bottle from the Jekyll and Hyde lot. This Villages wine is in fine shape: no browning or deepening of the color, just barely approaching its maturity, good ripeness (cherry, not berry) and grip.

Around 5:30 pm our remaining fellows arrive at the table and it turns into Corkzapoppin'!!! First we have some warm wine for the cold weather outside, Clos des Papes 2000 Chateauneuf-du-Pape is grenachey and warming but not particularly floral or attractive. Someone finally has the sense to open a white, Ch. Soucherie 2011 Anjou Blanc "Cuvee Les Rangs de Long", from a house more famous for Savennieres and Coteaux du Layon, this is chenin vinified dry and let sit on the fine lees for 8 months. It is peachy and crisp and a lovely little wine.

Still thirsty, and sensing further opportunity to open bottles, and even though time is running out on us, we keep going. Next opened is Dom. Antonin Guyon 1971 Chambolle-Musigny, from 375ml, pale pinky-red and potent: a vivid and promiscuous bouquet that gets even better with a few minutes of air. The palate is quite lean, perhaps unattractively so, but what a nose!

Thrust: Ch. Gruaud-Larose 1952 Saint-Julien, from 375ml, quickly throws off its tinny bed-clothes and wakes up to offer a gorgeous old Bordeaux palate of tobacco and earth and dark red fruit. Pretty texture, too.

And counter-thrust: Dom. Antonin Guyon 1999 Corton "Clos du Roy", this bottle is attributed to "Dom. Hippolyte Thevenot", one of their numerous bookkeeping entities. The wine is vigorous, nicely ripe, shapely acidity, way too young to drink, of course, and not recognizably Corton to me (but I am most familiar with the Ch. de Briaille version so I can claim no grand expertise).

Overall, lovely wines, good company, and a pleasant evening.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
And counter-thrust: Dom. Antonin Guyon 1999 Corton "Clos du Roy", this bottle is attributed to "Dom. Hippolyte Thevenot", one of their numerous bookkeeping entities. The wine is vigorous, nicely ripe, shapely acidity, way too young to drink, of course, and not recognizably Corton to me (but I am most familiar with the Ch. de Briaille version so I can claim no grand expertise).
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don't know this wine. but 99 Roi from Briailles isn't recognizable either, and won't be for a few more years
 
originally posted by .sasha:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
And counter-thrust: Dom. Antonin Guyon 1999 Corton "Clos du Roy", this bottle is attributed to "Dom. Hippolyte Thevenot", one of their numerous bookkeeping entities. The wine is vigorous, nicely ripe, shapely acidity, way too young to drink, of course, and not recognizably Corton to me (but I am most familiar with the Ch. de Briaille version so I can claim no grand expertise).
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don't know this wine. but 99 Roi from Briailles isn't recognizable either, and won't be for a few more years
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I have tried some more recent offerings from Antonin Guyon and have been unimpressed. Can anyone shed some light on the past of this producer?
 
So, every time you guys are getting together, you're literally popping and pouring at around 55 degrees, right? Just wondering how you expect the wines to open?
 
Brad,
They open from exposure to air, but as you note they don't warm up. Unless you waste precious bodily heat on them.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
Brad,
They open from exposure to air, but as you note they don't warm up. Unless you waste precious bodily heat on them.
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Yes, but the cold keeps things tamped down, no? That's been my experience tasting in cellar temps.
 
55 - 60 degrees is the temperature that red wines typically show best to my way of thinking. And I don't believe this temperature affects a wine's opening up.

So many restaurants serve red wines too warm and white wines too cold.

. . . . . . Pete
 
I don't believe you get the same aromatics or palate presence that cold as say 62-68, where I prefer my reds, especially with a heavier red such as a CDP. There's no doubt in my mind that a relatively young Clos des Papes would show poorly at 55 degrees in comparison to lighter bodied red.
 
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

55 - 60 degrees is the temperature that red wines typically show best to my way of thinking. And I don't believe this temperature affects a wine's opening up.

So many restaurants serve red wines too warm and white wines too cold.

. . . . . . Pete
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Indeed, but while you are indicating an optimal temperature for the bottle prior to serving, one could argue that a wine develops particularly well when it is several degrees warmer in the environment in which the wine served.

Of course Kane's complaints are centered more around the fact that, in a cool cellar, the wines will show too little alcohol and too much acidity, which in turn may also diminish the influence of any residual sugar a wine may possess.
 
originally posted by .sasha:
in a cool cellar, the wines will show too little alcohol and too much acidity,
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Is it fundamentally possible for Clos des Papes to show too little alcohol and too much acidity?
 
The Cantina Ar Pe Pe 2004 Valtellina Superiore Grumello Riserva "Rocca de Piro" was quite nice, if not particularly complex. The H. Lignier 1995 Chambolle-Musigny was showing very well indeed, perhaps the second best wine from this lot so far. I didn't try the Clos des Papes 2000 Chateauneuf-du-Pape until just before leaving when I suprised me by being quite pleasantly restrainted, with a lovely lavender note. The Ch. Soucherie 2011 Anjou Blanc "Cuvee Les Rangs de Long" was fine but not particularly interesting on the paalte. The Dom. Antonin Guyon 1971 Chambolle-Musigny had a beautiful nose, even more in a Bordeaux glass than in a Burgundy glass. The palate was a bit lean but not at all unattractive. The Ch. Gruaud-Larose 1952 Saint-Julien only needed 20 minutes or so of air to reveal a rich, mature Bordeaux. Probably peaking now, no need to hold yours any longer. To accompany the other Guyon Ray opened the Dom. Antonin Guyon 1999 Corton "Clos du Roy" which was a very good bottle of wine. Young yes, but one of the more enjoyable 1999s I've had in the last few years. This might be a bottle to revisit in 10 rather than 20. Old Corton is one of Burgundy's treasures for the patient.

Many thanks to M. Grossman for the use of his html.
 
originally posted by Jay Miller:
I didn't try the Clos des Papes 2000 Chateauneuf-du-Pape until just before leaving when I suprised me by being quite pleasantly restrainted, with a lovely lavender note.
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You've liked Clos des Papes before. I know you've said kind things about the '98 and I think I recall you liking the '95 ages ago. I think you're a fan of them pre-'03.
 
originally posted by Brad Kane:
originally posted by Jay Miller:
I didn't try the Clos des Papes 2000 Chateauneuf-du-Pape until just before leaving when I suprised me by being quite pleasantly restrainted, with a lovely lavender note.
Click to expand...

You've liked Clos des Papes before. I know you've said kind things about the '98 and I think I recall you liking the '95 ages ago. I think you're a fan of them pre-'03.
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I never said anything kind about the 1998, but I did like the 1995 quite a lot.
 
Clos des Papes used to be called the iron hand in the velvet glove. Since 03, they've taken off the gloves. The 00 is still the most forward of the 98-01 years, though. Most critics haven't liked the 98. I've always disagreed.
 
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