Paradigm shift

Florida Jim

Florida Jim

Florida Jim
An evening at the Fig Café in Glen Ellen with old friends both of whom are wine professionals. We each bring a bottle of wine without any communication about what it should be. Curiously, we both bring Vosne-Romanée.

1999 Dom. Bruno Clavelier, Vosne-Romanée Les Beaux Monts:
More about vintage than dirt, with some roasted fruit notes and plenty of flesh. Good depth, some development, good length and grip. Fine with steak.

1996 Jadot, Vosne-Romanée Les Suchots:
Also more about vintage than dirt but in a different way; firm, acidic, linear; some development, good length and grip. Fine with steak.

Neither was stellar, both were enjoyable. Mainly, they were savory, not sweet; each showed some secondary character; neither was especially complex, and, both reflected vintage reasonably well.
We did not pick a favorite nor did any of us think either was so exceptional as to be one.

Sacrilege though it might be, the more I drink old Burgundy, the more I prefer well-made, California pinot. At a fraction of the price (but even without the price difference).
And yes, I have had the “Burgundy experience,” problem is, not very often.

Best, Jim
 
"the more I drink Burgundy, the more I prefer well-made California Pinot." Please elaborate. I just like a well spoken gent such as yourself to go on a bit.
 
originally posted by Steve Edmunds:
"the more I drink Burgundy, the more I prefer well-made California Pinot." Please elaborate. I just like a well spoken gent such as yourself to go on a bit.
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Steve,
To give Rahsaan is due, the quote is actually, “the more I drink old Burgundy . . .” And perhaps I should have said older as opposed to old.
Regardless, I was probably being a bit pissy.
Here I have all these ten year and older Burgundies from good producers, vintages and sites, and as I open them I seem to be getting wines that are either tired and slightly hollow or that show some secondary development and little else (they’re not bad, just not up to par). Aside from some nice Volnay with ten or more years on it and the very occasional Richebourg, most of my Burgundy is not meeting expectations.
And of course, “expectations” may be the problem; or more precisely, my problem.
Whereas, I have tasted a number of well-made California pinots recently that have shown me both complexity and a nice balance of fruit and savory tones. Most have accompanied the food I eat quite well and they seem to be holding up in the short term.
Not lost on me is the fact that I am trying many more of these than Burgs.

I say pissy above because there are some pretty easy explanations here, if one buys them.
The first is my age. Several people have opined that as we age our palates are less discrete and enjoy sweetness more.
The second of which is the simple fact that while I am comparing pinot, I am comparing Burgundies that are older than most of the domestic pinots I am tasting.
The third being where I live and what I do; I am much more tuned to CA wines these days.

And of course, the overlay here is the price of each.
Burgundy, from virtually any AOC is now so expensive as to almost force me to alternatives.
Perhaps, one should discount price when assessing wine but I simply cannot.

Anyway, I was feeling frustrated with more than a few bottles of older Burgundy I have opened recently (after coveting them for years in my cellar) and recent opportunities to taste good domestic pinots put me in a not so understanding and patient mood; or pissy, if you like.

How’s that for windy; be careful what you ask for.
Best, Jim
 
originally posted by Florida Jim:
Here I have all these ten year and older Burgundies from good producers, vintages and sites, and as I open them I seem to be getting wines that are either tired and slightly hollow or that show some secondary development and little else (they’re not bad, just not up to par).
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Red version of the white pox? Same period, give or take.
 
FWIW I'm not touching 1999s currently. And I like relative youngsters as unlike Maureen and John G. I think most 1993s have entered a fine drinking window.

That said I have no experience with either of the above bottlings.
 
originally posted by Florida Jim:
originally posted by SFJoe:
Jim, I don't think 10 years gets you to "older" in Burgundy.
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Well, I suspect you can glean my meaning even if my word choice is less than precise.
Best, Jim
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Oh, I'm not trying to parse semantics with you at all. You might consider hanging on to your Burgs for a while longer before you open them, though. Or to anticipate finding them in an ungenerous spot if you don't.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
originally posted by Florida Jim:
originally posted by SFJoe:
Jim, I don't think 10 years gets you to "older" in Burgundy.
Click to expand...
Well, I suspect you can glean my meaning even if my word choice is less than precise.
Best, Jim
Click to expand...
Oh, I'm not trying to parse semantics with you at all. You might consider hanging on to your Burgs for a while longer before you open them, though. Or to anticipate finding them in an ungenerous spot if you don't.
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I don't think it is asking too much for 14 year old Burgundy to show well.

This fetishizing of old wine has to stop.

That being said, I've never had much truck with Bizot and I don't think that is one of Jadot's wines from domain vineyards.

Recently, I've had a lovely 1999 Jadot Corton Pougets.

I'm going to drink a 2005 Geantet En Champs tonight and I'll be pissed if it isn't good, so there.
 
originally posted by VLM:

I don't think it is asking too much for 14 year old Burgundy to show well.
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teh monquie has spoked. and teh market is listenez: with judicious use of chaptalization etc., folks have discovered that they can spoof up even the most balanced of pinots to show easy and facile throughout their pointless (pointy?) lifetimes. problem is, that shit always tastes trashed, not that anyone seems to care.

the alternatives are to either accept that you drink all great pinot noirs in their extreme infancy, or else you hitch yourself along for the wild and often confusing ride.

this in turn means that, to repeat a flabbism that ought to be a cliche by now, you have to learn about individual wines rather than "wine" (though, obviously, hooch slingers who rely on purveyors for access -- i'm talking to you america -- will tell you this is flabby elitist nonsense).

what this means, of course, is that i have no fucking clue what "14 year old burgundy" is. other than i'm sure that 14 year old jadot ain't my cup of filth.

fb.
 
originally posted by fatboy:
originally posted by VLM:

I don't think it is asking too much for 14 year old Burgundy to show well.
Click to expand...

teh monquie has spoked. and teh market is listenez: with judicious use of chaptalization etc., folks have discovered that they can spoof up even the most balanced of pinots to show easy and facile throughout their pointless (pointy?) lifetimes. problem is, that shit always tastes trashed, not that anyone seems to care.

the alternatives are to either accept that you drink all great pinot noirs in their extreme infancy, or else you hitch yourself along for the wild and often confusing ride.

this in turn means that, to repeat a flabbism that ought to be a cliche by now, you have to learn about individual wines rather than "wine" (though, obviously, hooch slingers who rely on purveyors for access -- i'm talking to you america -- will tell you this is flabby elitist nonsense).

what this means, of course, is that i have no fucking clue what "14 year old burgundy" is. other than i'm sure that 14 year old jadot ain't my cup of filth.

fb.
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Oh come on. Honestly? We're going to get atomistic about everything? Why stop at "individual wine"? How about what's in the glass in front of you? That's clearly where this line of reasoning leads.

As a scientist you make generalizations every day, why do your panties get all bunched up here?

This is certainly flabby.
 
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