I tried, but I did not succeed (Grner Veltliner)

S

Sharon Bowman

Sharon Bowman
So, I've been hearing a lot about this non-French grape. Something that seems to grow in Austria? Some people like it?

I was at some random tasting in London and the store was actually amazing (Rahsaan, better than just a last-minute Foillard dealer; I would sleep under their tasting table, if they let me). So, they had two references of the GV thing. So, I purchased one.

Drank this at lunch today (shh, yes, on a Sunday you can drink at lunch).

2004 Prager Grner Veltliner Smaragd Achleiten - well. Does this need more time? An injection of some aromatics? Something? Hello? Nice weight and glyceriny mouthfeel, but where are the tastes? Hello, hello, hello?

It might just be me. Is it too young? Help?
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman: the store was actually amazing (Rahsaan, better than just a last-minute Foillard dealer; I would sleep under their tasting table, if they let me).
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Amazing because of the wines available to taste by the glass?

Sure it is interesting but would you have felt the same way if you had to pay for the pours?

Otherwise, the selection is good and respectable but I wouldn't say it is 'amazing'.
 
Hrmmmm. I've liked Prager in the past, but maybe you should look for Hirsch. He does a basic bottling, called #1, which is a good example of the grape. He also makes a few single vineyard wines too, try Heiligenstein.

I also love Nigl. In general, though, the Terry Theise portfolio is full of great examples.

I love Austrian wines, by the way.
 
Franz Leth makes some great examples. His basic Steinegrunder (sp?) is @ $16 and is IMO the best at that price. He also has some from the 80s that are drinking really well now.

Kirchmayr also has some great examples with age. They hold the wine back at the vineyard. I believe that a '95 is the most recent vintage available in NYC...
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:

2004 Prager Grner Veltliner Smaragd Achleiten - well. Does this need more time? An injection of some aromatics? Something? Hello? Nice weight and glyceriny mouthfeel, but where are the tastes? Hello, hello, hello?

It might just be me. Is it too young? Help?
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I've had this wine in earlier years, though not the '04. It should be more aromatic than what you got, Sharon. It's usually got minerals, honey and green pea. Is this a possible case of low-level TCA "fruit scalping"?

Mark Lipton
 
Yes, way too young. Pick up a basic bottling to give the grape a try. (Fred) Loimer's basic bottlings will give you a nice introduction to the grape. IMO Sharon, jumping into a young Prager is like opening a DRC(or read anyone that uses new wood) current vintage, and then stating that you don't like Pinot Noir.

But that being said, I'm not a big fan of GruVs.
 
If you haven't finished the bottle, check back in on it. Quality GruVs need some aeration to unwind- we'll decant at the shop at least a few hours if we're going to be featuring something serious at a tasting. It's like good Chenin...

Recent bottles of Brundlmayer Alte Reben and Gobelsburg Lamm in '07 have been stunning, even if embryonic.
 
originally posted by Sharon Bowman:
I tried, but I did not succeed (Grner Veltliner)...

2004 Prager Grner Veltliner Smaragd Achleiten - well. Does this need more time? An injection of some aromatics? Something? Hello? Nice weight and glyceriny mouthfeel, but where are the tastes? Hello, hello, hello?

It might just be me. Is it too young? Help?
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I have tasted fewer Gruners than many of this crew, but one thing I have noticed is that this seems to be a bipolar grape. Inexpensive, higher yield, young Gruner from the less distinguished vineyards is tangy, somewhat austere, slightly vegetal wine that accompanies a variety of foods nicely but is rather short on excitement IMHO. Mature Gruner from old vines in great vineyards can be astounding, combining the creamy-racy-smoky-stony character of fine white burgundy with exotic aromas and flavors ranging from spices to flowers. If I tasted typical examples of the two extremes blind side-by-side, I wouldn't guess they were the same grape. Depending on the grower, vineyard, vintage, etc., I imagine many Gruners fit somewhere between those two poles.
 
Ok, since many of the replies here do not address the wine in question, let me say that many of the top 2004s are rather closed right now. A Wachau Smaradg is not some middling example that one can just quaff (especially for the price), and rather requires age to show its best. I would not go near a top '04 for at least another 5 years or so.

Prager makes very fine Gruner Veltliner, but if you are looking for early charm then seek out a 2006 or 2007.

Also, Gruner Veltliner is not the most aromatic grape in the world. Sure it has its pepper and pea shoot aromatics, but it's no Muscat.
 
originally posted by David M. Bueker:
Ok, since many of the replies here do not address the wine in question, let me say that many of the top 2004s are rather closed right now. A Wachau Smaradg is not some middling example that one can just quaff (especially for the price), and rather requires age to show its best. I would not go near a top '04 for at least another 5 years or so.

Prager makes very fine Gruner Veltliner, but if you are looking for early charm then seek out a 2006 or 2007.

Also, Gruner Veltliner is not the most aromatic grape in the world. Sure it has its pepper and pea shoot aromatics, but it's no Muscat.
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And to David's qualifiers I would also add that Achleiten is a great vineyard, but one where I prefer riesling from a house where I tend to prefer riesling.

You might better enjoy a Knoll or Hirtzberger. Knoll wines tend to spend a lot more time in cask than other Wachau producers which I think would appeal to you. That being said, there are vineyards where I prefer riesling to gruner veltliner. In Schutt and Loibenberg for example, I prefer riesling in the former and gruner veltliner in the latter. Both make very good expressions of either variety, but seems to favor one over the other. Acleiten is, and will always be to me, a riesling vineyard.

Anyway, a grape that really is worth trying to understand. See the Prager as a data point, not a "deal breaker".
 
originally posted by VLM:

And to David's qualifiers I would also add that Achleiten is a great vineyard, but one where I prefer riesling from a house where I tend to prefer riesling.

You might better enjoy a Knoll or Hirtzberger. Knoll wines tend to spend a lot more time in cask than other Wachau producers which I think would appeal to you. That being said, there are vineyards where I prefer riesling to gruner veltliner. In Schutt and Loibenberg for example, I prefer riesling in the former and gruner veltliner in the latter. Both make very good expressions of either variety, but seems to favor one over the other. Acleiten is, and will always be to me, a riesling vineyard.

Anyway, a grape that really is worth trying to understand. See the Prager as a data point, not a "deal breaker".
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It's almost scary to say it, but I am with vlm in toto.

I assume that GV is planted on the lower parts of Achleiten, and that we are not wasting great riesling terroir on GV here. But I've never visited Prager.
 
Hirtzberger, Honivogl.
If you try a GV from this producer and this vineyard with a little age on it, and don't like it, you won't like GV. Landmark GV from here.
Best, Jim
 
Sharon's descriptors indeed point to low-level, aroma- and taste-killing TCA if you ask me (which you don't, and you're certainly right). There's no doubt in my mind that a 2004 Smaragd, even from Achleiten, even closed, should have some aroma and some taste at this point.
 
Hey, y'all can't like EVERYTHING under the sun, especially when you are particular of the what you ask the grape to delever. Move on. There are many more vines in the world to discover. Although, I hasten to add, that GV is an aromatic variety, so yours would be an unusual example.
 
originally posted by Ignacio Villalgordo:
I am surprised nobody has mentioned FX Pichler or Nikolaihof...
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Both great producers, obviously. FXP's wines since the mid-'90s have been awfully big, and I'd generally rather drink Durnsteiner Kellerberg riesling than any of his GVs.

I also love the rieslings at Nikolaihof, and probably give short shrift to the GVs.
 
Actually, the Nikolaihoff Hefeabzug is a good inexpensive introduction. Buy 2 bottles, drink one know, the second in 5 or 6 years. That should give you a good idea of whether you like Gruner for very little money and you can then expand to higher end bottlings.

Of course this requires a little more patience than might be practical. A better option might be to talk Joe into another dinner at his place where he will open something with a bit of age.

These days I'm pretty much of the opinion that opening a decent GV at less than age 10 is a bit of a waste.
 
originally posted by Jay Miller:
Actually, the Nikolaihoff [sic] Hefeabzug is a good inexpensive introduction. Buy 2 bottles, drink one know, the second in 5 or 6 years. That should give you a good idea of whether you like Gruner for very little money and you can then expand to higher end bottlings.
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I am probably in the minority, but I've never been taken with the Hefeabzug bottling. My starter GV recommendation would be a Federspiel from a quality producer such as Knoll.

These days I'm pretty much of the opinion that opening a decent GV at less than age 10 is a bit of a waste.
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Interesting. Is that true across all Prdikat levels? I can't see aging Federspiels (or, for that matter, Steinfeders if you can find them in the US) for that long, but YMMV in a Connellian sorta way.

Mark Lipton
 
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