CWD: '09 Roilette

M

MLipton

Mark Lipton
Zow! Open and ready for business tonight, it was bright and juicy with a sweet core of fruit and a beguiling floral note in the nose. Perhaps a touch darker than is the norm here, but otherwise rather unaffected by the vintage. Bravo, M. Coudert!

Mark Lipton

p.s. This is the non-Tardive bottling, in case that wasn't already clear.
 
originally posted by MLipton:
CWD: '09 RoiletteZow! Open and ready for business tonight, it was bright and juicy with a sweet core of fruit and a beguiling floral note in the nose. Perhaps a touch darker than is the norm here, but otherwise rather unaffected by the vintage. Bravo, M. Coudert!

Mark Lipton

p.s. This is the non-Tardive bottling, in case that wasn't already clear.
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I think winegirl owns the rights to Zow! as a wine descriptor.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Thanks, Mark. We opened one several months ago that was hard as a brick, and I swore them off for a couple years to come. Interesting.
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I saw that note on CT, Ian, and I approach all '09s at this point with trepidation. Having said that, my passively cooled cellar is probably warmer than your storage conditions, so my wine's development might be faster.

Mark Lipton
 
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Thanks, Mark. We opened one several months ago that was hard as a brick, and I swore them off for a couple years to come. Interesting.
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I saw that note on CT, Ian, and I approach all '09s at this point with trepidation. Having said that, my passively cooled cellar is probably warmer than your storage conditions, so my wine's development might be faster.

Mark Lipton
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2009s are drinking fine now. Fetishizing old Beaujolais is weird. There are only a few, and those only in certain vintages, that make interesting old bones. Others only turn into generic "old wine", if you're lucky.

Jay Miller is just wrong. Fruit is a delicious part of wine.
 
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Thanks, Mark. We opened one several months ago that was hard as a brick, and I swore them off for a couple years to come. Interesting.
Click to expand...

I saw that note on CT, Ian, and I approach all '09s at this point with trepidation. Having said that, my passively cooled cellar is probably warmer than your storage conditions, so my wine's development might be faster.

Mark Lipton
Click to expand...

2009s are drinking fine now. Fetishizing old Beaujolais is weird. There are only a few, and those only in certain vintages, that make interesting old bones. Others only turn into generic "old wine", if you're lucky.

Jay Miller is just wrong. Fruit is a delicious part of wine.
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It can be. Just not necessarily.
 
originally posted by VLM:

2009s are drinking fine now. Fetishizing old Beaujolais is weird. There are only a few, and those only in certain vintages, that make interesting old bones. Others only turn into generic "old wine", if you're lucky.

Jay Miller is just wrong. Fruit is a delicious part of wine.
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My dear Monkey,
It's not about fetishizing age; it's about finding pleasure in wine. A lot of the '09s (not all, but many) were highly structured in their youth and then shut down hard. I find little pleasure in drinking a shut down wine. That said, I tend to drink my Brun L'Ancien, Lapierre Morgon and Chermette Traditionelle on the young side, so it does depend on the wine.

Mark Lipton
 
The cru counts, too: everyone knows that well-made wines from Moulin, Morgon, and Cote de Brouilly reputedly improve longer in the cellar. A fleeting encounter even with Tete's 2005 Julienas 'prestige' cured me of temptation to mess with those wines for a while. Gilman writes about Thivin Cote de Brouilly reaching its 'apogee' (sorry fatboy) at age 30, conjecturing that the proprietors start drinking theirs at around 20.

Anyway, if these are reliable 'drink or hold' wines, all the more reason to put a few by.

I almost asked Nathan about opening a 2011 Griffe du Marquis now, but caught myself just in time.
 
the few 09s I opened recently are showing well, but they are plump and by no means low in alcohol. I don't know what this means in terms of attaining better balance than what you see today; it is possible with additional secondary sweetness. There are some great old Bs from hot vintages that occupy a niche in my tasting experience ( 91s, 89s, 76s ). Generic, per VLM? Perhaps, but still unique as a group.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
The cru counts, too: everyone knows that well-made wines from Moulin, Morgon, and Cote de Brouilly reputedly improve longer in the cellar. A fleeting encounter even with Tete's 2005 Julienas 'prestige' cured me of temptation to mess with those wines for a while. Gilman writes about Thivin Cote de Brouilly reaching its 'apogee' (sorry fatboy) at age 30, conjecturing that the proprietors start drinking theirs at around 20.

Anyway, if these are reliable 'drink or hold' wines, all the more reason to put a few by.

I almost asked Nathan about opening a 2011 Griffe du Marquis now, but caught myself just in time.
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The 2010 Griffe was delicious as a young wine, very precocious.

By the time the Tardive gets out west, it is usually shut down for me, last few vintages anyway.

That Griffe never closed up as hard. Maybe the small barrels allow more oxygen contact?
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Gilman writes about Thivin Cote de Brouilly reaching its 'apogee' (sorry fatboy) at age 30, conjecturing that the proprietors start drinking theirs at around 20.
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Though I admit to never actually drinking a 20-year-old Thivin Cote de Brouilly this sounds like crazy talk to me.

Except for a Brun Moulin-a-Vent, I haven’t had any 2009 in the past few months that were clearly too young to drink.
 
originally posted by .sasha:
the few 09s I opened recently are showing well, but they are plump and by no means low in alcohol. I don't know what this means in terms of attaining better balance than what you see today; it is possible with additional secondary sweetness. There are some great old Bs from hot vintages that occupy a niche in my tasting experience ( 91s, 89s, 76s ). Generic, per VLM? Perhaps, but still unique as a group.
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1991s can be pretty stunning.

I don't really disagree with anything you said.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
The cru counts, too: everyone knows that well-made wines from Moulin, Morgon, and Cote de Brouilly reputedly improve longer in the cellar. A fleeting encounter even with Tete's 2005 Julienas 'prestige' cured me of temptation to mess with those wines for a while. Gilman writes about Thivin Cote de Brouilly reaching its 'apogee' (sorry fatboy) at age 30, conjecturing that the proprietors start drinking theirs at around 20.
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I'm not nearly as impressed with Thivin as you or John. The wines are good, but ones that I drink when I can't find others. He's welcome to cellar them for 20 years, but I'm pretty skeptical of his whole line there.

Honestly, I'm with Tom Blach. I think that village level Burgundy makes the best generic old wine.

Anyway, if these are reliable 'drink or hold' wines, all the more reason to put a few by.

I almost asked Nathan about opening a 2011 Griffe du Marquis now, but caught myself just in time.
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I've already had a couple of 2011 Griffe. They are texturally brilliant if not aromatically evolved.
 
originally posted by MLipton:
originally posted by VLM:

2009s are drinking fine now. Fetishizing old Beaujolais is weird. There are only a few, and those only in certain vintages, that make interesting old bones. Others only turn into generic "old wine", if you're lucky.

Jay Miller is just wrong. Fruit is a delicious part of wine.
Click to expand...

My dear Monkey,
It's not about fetishizing age; it's about finding pleasure in wine. A lot of the '09s (not all, but many) were highly structured in their youth and then shut down hard. I find little pleasure in drinking a shut down wine. That said, I tend to drink my Brun L'Ancien, Lapierre Morgon and Chermette Traditionelle on the young side, so it does depend on the wine.

Mark Lipton
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Don't fucking lecture me with wine appreciation tautologies, Prof. Lipton.

No one likes a shut down wine, but the phenomenon is a bit overstated. 2009s have never seemed "shut down" to me. Buoyantly expressive? Well, maybe not but there has always been plenty of deliciousness, IMO.
 
originally posted by Todd Abrams:
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
Gilman writes about Thivin Cote de Brouilly reaching its 'apogee' (sorry fatboy) at age 30, conjecturing that the proprietors start drinking theirs at around 20.
Click to expand...

Though I admit to never actually drinking a 20-year-old Thivin Cote de Brouilly this sounds like crazy talk to me.

Except for a Brun Moulin-a-Vent, I haven’t had any 2009 in the past few months that were clearly too young to drink.
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This "Todd Abrams" guy knows what he is talking about.
 
originally posted by VLM:


Don't fucking lecture me with wine appreciation tautologies, Prof. Lipton.
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Which tautologies should I lecture you with then, Herr Doktor Vandergrift?

No one likes a shut down wine, but the phenomenon is a bit overstated. 2009s have never seemed "shut down" to me. Buoyantly expressive? Well, maybe not but there has always been plenty of deliciousness, IMO.
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Part of the divergence of opinion here might arise from the quantities of wine that we purchase. You are, reasonably enough, an advocate of purchasing a particular wine in quantity and watching it evolve over years. Because of a limited wine budget and endless curiosity -- not to mention less experience with the wines of various regions -- I am still buying wines in 1-3 bottle quantities. In such a position, I tend to err on the side of caution w.r.t. opening up something young. Yes, maybe my '09 Tardive is also drinking well now, but another 1-2 years in the cellar is unlikely to hurt it, no?, so why not give it that chance to open up more in case it needs it? It's not like I don't have other things in the cellar to open...

Mark Lipton
 
Thivin is a mystery to me.
Anyone like the 2011 ? It's around.

I was planning on checking up on quite a few 2009 Beaujolais in the next year or two. Maybe I should join forces with SFJoe.
 
I drink tons of Roillette. The 09's were open for business on release IMO. I've also been drinking 09-12 tardive and Griffe. All Delicous. matter of fact I'm not convinced that aging Tardive is where it's at.

As a data point, the 2010 (normal fluerie) is drinking wonderfully now. The 2011 is a bit odd to me and the 2012 is pretty damn good now too.
 
originally posted by VLM:
Honestly, I'm with Tom Blach.
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You have to admit, you saying this is a little bit funny. Pretty much every time he posts on a wine board of one type or another, it involves him reprimanding someone for opening a wine too early!
 
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