Adieu, Pineau

[Lou Kessler]

originally posted by Sharon Bowman:

It's still too early to wax my skis.

 

[Jeff Grossman]

originally posted by SFJoe:
I.e., that good producers won't seek the AOC for anything.

Which will have exactly the opposite effect of that intended by the AOC system... the good wines will all be labeled "VdF" + a random vanity name, making it that much more difficult to buy on the strength of what you can read on the labels.

 

[Ian Fitzsimmons]

Good is in they eye of the retail buyer, I guess. My personal inclinations in re: quality are often aligned with yours, but I think in general we are the geeky few swimming against the tide of popular preference.

 

[SFJoe]

Ian,

The ones you drink get a much higher price out the cellar door than the neighbors, AOC or no.

 

[Ian Fitzsimmons]

And rightly so, but I don't buy very much. A large number of people buying less costly, less good wine is likely to keep more vignerons in business than Jeff and me, and even you and Brad.

Actually, this is an interesting dilemma with more general application in the world of agricultural goods. It hearkens a bit to Pollan's discussion of commoditized production of corn, and has indirect bearing on issues like watershed-scale pollution with fertilizer and pesticides. Emphasis in the retail market on ag products' specific identity, and attendant quality, has the potential to change the financial incentives confronting farmers, rewarding relatively smaller-scale production of better stuff. As in the case of Salatin's farm, farming for quality in this manner can be labor and management intensive, but can also reward conservation practices that protect soil and moderate chemical inputs.

 

[Jay Miller]

originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
And rightly so, but I don't buy very much. A large number of people buying less costly, less good wine is likely to keep more vignerons in business than Jeff and me, and even you and Brad.

Actually, this is an interesting dilemma with more general application in the world of agricultural goods. It hearkens a bit to Pollan's discussion of commoditized production of corn, and has indirect bearing on issues like watershed-scale pollution with fertilizer and pesticides. Emphasis in the retail market on ag products' specific identity, and attendant quality, has the potential to change the financial incentives confronting farmers, rewarding relatively smaller-scale production of better stuff. As in the case of Salatin's farm, farming for quality in this manner can be labor and management intensive, but can also reward conservation practices that protect soil and moderate chemical inputs.

But actively discouraging people from devoting some of their production to excellent expensive wine rather than low end inexpensive wine seems counterproductive. Unless the AOC is actively seeking the reputation of producing bland generic wine. If that's their marketing strategy more power to them I guess.

 

[Oswaldo Costa]

Wouldn't be surprised if someone like Henry Marionnet is to blame.

Which reminds me of a nice song by Jimmy Webb:

Marionnet, your dress is all wet
Did someone leave you outside in the rain,
Or is it the pain
that makes all the puppet tears
roll down your cheek
Or does the roof leak?

Marionnet, how could you forget?
I told you your bright shining varnish
would peel
And how does it feel
with the bright rouge all faded and
the smile almost cracked
Now that you've come back?
Back to the toy shop by Brandenburg Gate
I hope not too late
'Cause my hands are much stiffer
Than they were when first I
painted your eyes.

Marionnet, no you're not finished yet;
I'll mend you and make you like new,
Paint your eyes blue,
and make you as young as I was myself,
And there on the shelf...
You'll sit till the Puppet Man
Comes round again.

 

[Sharon Bowman]

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Who's pulling the strings?Wouldn't be surprised if someone like Henry Marionnet is to blame.

Isn't he the one who champions les cépages oubliés?

 

[Oswaldo Costa]

Don't think so, quite the opposite. According to the NSA, he happened by luck on some ungrafted Romorantin which he somewhat mistreats and overcharges for, then tries to forbid the use of this and that grape by others in the Touraine.

 

[Jay Miller]

originally posted by Sharon Bowman:

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Who's pulling the strings?Wouldn't be surprised if someone like Henry Marionnet is to blame.

Isn't he the one who champions les cépages oubliés?

More like les cépages oubliette. Or at least it seems like that's where most of his wines belong.

 

[MLipton]

originally posted by Jay Miller:

originally posted by Sharon Bowman:

originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Who's pulling the strings?Wouldn't be surprised if someone like Henry Marionnet is to blame.

Isn't he the one who champions les cépages oubliés?

More like les cépages oubliette. Or at least it seems like that's where most of his wines belong.

Ouch!!

Mark Lipton

 

[Ian Fitzsimmons]

originally posted by Jay Miller:


But actively discouraging people from devoting some of their production to excellent expensive wine rather than low end inexpensive wine seems counterproductive. Unless the AOC is actively seeking the reputation of producing bland generic wine. If that's their marketing strategy more power to them I guess.

And we've seen European viticulturalists make this choice again and again. Maybe it's easier in the short-run, needing less thought, attention, management. Maybe some centralizing entity has acquired a position of control and is pulling the strings. Maybe the individuals who pour their hearts into making their wines lack the energy or patience with administrative detail to organize regionally.

In any event, the blandistas prevail often enough. Maybe intelligence is over-rated as an attribute contributing to reproductive success.

 

[SFJoe]

I think it's rather that excellent wines made by dedicated maniacs will always be a small minority of the population. One tank farm of sparkling crappy Saumur or Vouvray will be sure to do more volume than everyone we talk about here put together, and thus it always shall be. That same tank farm producer will tend to have more economic and political influence than the quality producers, though their higher profile may occasionally counterbalance this on the political side.

How many US regs are written for Gallo and Constellation, and how many for Rhys and Littorai?

Get real.

 

[Ian Fitzsimmons]

Well said, but if the maniacs were also skilled organizers, could they not counter the economic and political influence of the tank farmer?

I dunno.

 

[SFJoe]

originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
if the maniacs were also skilled organizers

Hmmmmm.

Happens sometimes, I suppose.

 

[MLipton]

One of the larger barriers to maniac organizers is that the maniacs are usually too busy in the fields and in the cellars to have time to rally the troops. And the AOCs have for a long time been used as a bludgeon to enforce conformity (and mediocrity). Jealousy at others' success and critical adulation plays no small role, I'm sure.

Mark Lipton

 

[Ian Fitzsimmons]

originally posted by SFJoe:

originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
if the maniacs were also skilled organizers

Hmmmmm.

Happens sometimes, I suppose.

Gaston Huet popped into my mind while I was typing.

 

[SFJoe]

originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:

originally posted by SFJoe:

originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
if the maniacs were also skilled organizers

Hmmmmm.

Happens sometimes, I suppose.

Gaston Huet popped into my mind while I was typing.

I'm not sure he was a maniac, but he was in my mind as an example of someone prominent and with political chops who could make a difference.

A place like Vouvray with a longstanding vineyard hierarchy may offer different opportunities for that sort of influence than, say, Les Montils or Calce. Gaston was mayor, after all, not some dreadlocked organizer.

 

[Ian Fitzsimmons]

originally posted by SFJoe:

originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:

originally posted by SFJoe:

originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
if the maniacs were also skilled organizers

Hmmmmm.

Happens sometimes, I suppose.

Gaston Huet popped into my mind while I was typing.

I'm not sure he was a maniac, but he was in my mind as an example of someone prominent and with political chops who could make a difference. [...]

Right. I think Einstein wrote that politics is harder than science; social organization is complex. But being mayor suggests some administrative and political savvy, dreadlocks or no.

Cases in which the blandistas have their way draw our attention, viz. Touraine and Beaujolais (Brun), but there must be regions where thoughtful intelligence discreetly holds sway.

 

[SFJoe]

originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:

originally posted by SFJoe:

originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:

originally posted by SFJoe:

originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
if the maniacs were also skilled organizers

Hmmmmm.

Happens sometimes, I suppose.

Gaston Huet popped into my mind while I was typing.

I'm not sure he was a maniac, but he was in my mind as an example of someone prominent and with political chops who could make a difference. [...]

Right. I think Einstein wrote that politics is harder than science; social organization is complex. But being mayor suggests some administrative and political savvy, dreadlocks or no.

Cases in which the blandistas have their way draw our attention, viz. Touraine and Beaujolais (Brun), but there must be regions where thoughtful intelligence discreetly holds sway.

They seem to do OK in Gevrey.