Adieu, Pineau

originally posted by Brézème:
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by Brézème:
Alas Joe, the bureaucrats have a little to do with this. Thats the ODGs who are in charge, and they are exclusively composed of elected vignerons!!!
Click to expand...

Who got to vote in this 'election'?
Click to expand...

Any vigneron or negociant.
Click to expand...

All over the world, growers and winemakers have an amazing record for being able to forecast just what will sell or make their reputations. That's why there are never any shortages or excesses of grapes and prices are so stable.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
I think it's rather that excellent wines made by dedicated maniacs will always be a small minority of the population. One tank farm of sparkling crappy Saumur or Vouvray will be sure to do more volume than everyone we talk about here put together, and thus it always shall be. That same tank farm producer will tend to have more economic and political influence than the quality producers, though their higher profile may occasionally counterbalance this on the political side.

How many US regs are written for Gallo and Constellation, and how many for Rhys and Littorai?

Get real.
Click to expand...

That's very binary thinking; why does it have to be excellence or crap? Three cheers for efficient producers of moderately priced tasty typicity!

Speaking of typicity, you could argue that is the real role for AOC, rather than a (frequently misleading) proxy for quality. If consumers know that when they buy AOC Cotes de Machin-Truc, it will taste more or less like this and really come from there, it is a useful piece of information for consumers and useful incentive for the vignerons. It's up to the AOC's producers to convince people why they should like that flavor and pay more for it, or figure out which people like that flavor and market to them, or whatever it takes to improve their prices or sales.

It may be that Puzelat's Pineau d'Aunis Touraine is more typical of the Touraine than whatever cépage du jour is being stamped AOC these days, in which case Puzelat has been wronged. But saying it's wrong to declassify him because the wine (in your opinion) is high quality opens another can of worms.

To pose an extreme example, suppose someone plants Semillon and Sauvignon Blanc in a foggy area around Vertou, southeast of Nantes; and they make something resembling Chateau d'Yquem. Great wine...but should it be called Muscadet?
 
Christian,

You misunderstand me. Puzelat is not the only guy in the Touraine with Pineau d'Aunis, and those vines aren't young. I'm sure there are indifferent producers.

The issue is not quality, but diversity. The Touraine has a bunch of exciting grapes that are steadily being purged from the the AOC.

Separately, we discussed the question of who influences those decisions and how. Ian said we need maniacs. I said there may be alternatives. You might reread.

This morning, my notion is that rich, small AOCs allow a lot of scope to their (often similarly situated) members. Pacalet gets the agrément in Ruchottes. Stephan gets it in Cote-Rotie. But in poorer places with some large, industrial producers it can be a different story. Jean-Paul Brun gets denied in Beaujolais.

But this is a different question than what we discussed above.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
Separately, we discussed the question of who influences those decisions and how. Ian said we need maniacs. I said there may be alternatives. You might reread.

This morning, my notion is that rich, small AOCs allow a lot of scope to their (often similarly situated) members. Pacalet gets the agrément in Ruchottes. Stephan gets it in Cote-Rotie. But in poorer places with some large, industrial producers it can be a different story. Jean-Paul Brun gets denied in Beaujolais.
Click to expand...

Along the lines of this power question, an interesting book came out in 2007 about how the top Bordeaux producers have captured their AOCs and enforced strict regulations to the detriment of the lower-priced producers. So a different angle to what you're talking about in Burgundy and Cote-Rotie, but yet further evidence that each region has its own logic. And of course the importance of interest group politics.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
Christian,

You misunderstand me. Puzelat is not the only guy in the Touraine with Pineau d'Aunis, and those vines aren't young. I'm sure there are indifferent producers.

The issue is not quality, but diversity. The Touraine has a bunch of exciting grapes that are steadily being purged from the the AOC.

Separately, we discussed the question of who influences those decisions and how. Ian said we need maniacs. I said there may be alternatives. You might reread.

[...]
Click to expand...

I would synopsize differently, but accept that you are (over-) simplifying to make a point to Christian.
 
Look.

There is no denying that AOC status raises prices (revenue) for growers in general. So denying AOC status to a certain variety, at the margins, will (eventually) lead to that variety being 'replaced' (with Chardonnay or swimming pools).

There's a (strong) philosophical argument about not obscuring terroir, which does not require my explication. But there is an equally strong argument for biodiversity, which these proclamations ignore.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
Christian,

You misunderstand me. Puzelat is not the only guy in the Touraine with Pineau d'Aunis, and those vines aren't young. I'm sure there are indifferent producers.

The issue is not quality, but diversity. The Touraine has a bunch of exciting grapes that are steadily being purged from the the AOC.

Separately, we discussed the question of who influences those decisions and how. Ian said we need maniacs. I said there may be alternatives. You might reread.

This morning, my notion is that rich, small AOCs allow a lot of scope to their (often similarly situated) members. Pacalet gets the agrément in Ruchottes. Stephan gets it in Cote-Rotie. But in poorer places with some large, industrial producers it can be a different story. Jean-Paul Brun gets denied in Beaujolais.

But this is a different question than what we discussed above.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure diversity is necessarily a good objective for an AOC, but that's another complicated discussion. Actually, I pretty much agree with your take and it would be a fascinating socioeconomic study. The tragedy here (and it's repeated frequently in both highly-regulated environments like French AOCs and low regulation environments like California) is that people chasing "hot" varieties only look at demand and not at supply and competition. They think "Sauvignon Blanc is a bigger market" and don't ponder the fact that there is good moderately priced Sauvignon Blanc from all over the world to compete with. Demand for Pineau d'Aunis may be low, but if supply is limited, it might be easier to sell.
 
The tragedy here is that the AOC is pursuing salability of its wines (choosing only popular grapes and paying for their mono-culture) rather than a careful stewardship of its terroir (with a diverse population that includes both Marilyn Monroe and Elmira Gulch varieties).
 
My understanding is that AOC is, historically, a specific form of quality control basesd on terroir. The ideas was to determine areas of special quality and also determine practices--including allowed grape varieties--that gave that area its specific qualities and thus made it worth marketing as such. Too broad a variance from those practices could affect place reputation by reducing the consistency of place. You can't grown pinot noir in the Rhone and get a CdR AOC authorization not because they might not be able to sell hot weather Pinot Noir like hotcakes and maybe moreso than Grenache (it's certainly the case that their would be a larger market for white CdP if it were tarted up with viognier)but because it wouldn't be a wine from there. I'm sorry to belabor the obvious, but assuming Pineau d'Aunis was once a recognized variety for use in the area, then your problem isn't AOC rules but the people enforcing them, really hardly a new or uniques problem.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:

I would synopsize differently, but accept that you are (over-) simplifying to make a point to Christian.
Click to expand...
Apology. Busy morning.

Too many lawyers today. And more of them tomorrow.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top