four more

C

Cliff

Cliff Rosenberg
1996 Domaine des Baumard Savennires Clos du Papillon - France, Loire Valley, Anjou-Saumur, Savennires (12/9/2008)
Bad news. Caramel city, seriously oxidized. On the off chance that this somehow sorts itself out, I saved the drain last night, recorked, and crossed my fingers. But I am not optimistic.

1997 Chteau d'Epir Savennires Cuve Spciale - France, Loire Valley, Anjou-Saumur, Savennires (12/9/2008)
While this has seen better days, it's still intact. It has a hint of caramel (like the Baumard) but only a hint; mostly it's good, rustic, woolly, Chenin funk.

2004 Domaine de la Ppire (Marc Ollivier) Muscadet de Svre-et-Maine Sur Lie Clos des Briords, Cuve Vieilles Vignes - France, Loire Valley, Pays Nantais, Muscadet de Svre-et-Maine (12/9/2008)
The recent tips that this is showing well are right on. Here, too, I'm shocked how open this is. It seems to be on an opposite evolutionary path from the 2006 at the moment, converging in a (very) broadly similar place: wide open, great minerality, everything I look for in Briords.

2006 Gerard Schueller Pinot Blanc - France, Alsace, Alsace AOC (12/2/2008)
This one did not do it for me at all. Could have been a bit corked but not too much, and the underlying fruit didn't have me interested enough to take a closer look.
 
Bad news on the Baumard. My last experience was not a very happy one. I was hoping it was just a phase that it would come out of. Almost grabbed a bottle last time I visited storage.

Maybe I should just let them sleep for 15 more years? The Dougherty method for chenin...
 
We've had a couple of the 96 Baumard Papillon in the last year or two. They are consistently sherry-like and, at first, startling, even off-putting. With time and food, though, we have found them to be quite delicious. BTW, this bottling has always tasted super dry/oxidative to me, ever since we opened the first one in 2001. It wasn't until 2005 or so that some balancing richness entered into the picture.

At nearly 14% abv, though, perhaps anything would taste delicious by the third glass.

I've got two more of these I'm holding onto for the purposes of science.
 
Well, we've got the better part of a bottle left in the fridge in the interest of science. I couldn't get past the caramel. We shall see.
 
Why should a 1996 Baumard be oxidized? He certainly wasn't in a low-SO2 mode in those days, and it's a ripe but high acid vintage. Cooked somewhere in transit?
 
Just tried a sip from the recorked Baumard. Now I love Puffeney, Radikon, and the rest, but this was just nasty. Whatever its other afflictions, this sucker was definitely oxidized. It was only the one bottle. Could have been the cork.
 
We opened a '97 Epire a few weeks ago. It took an hour or two to come around but it was quite nice and not really rustic at all, at least not to my tastes.

Sorry to hear about the Baumard. A '96 Closel Clos du Papillon Cuvee Speciale opened last month was sublime.

Best,
Kay
 
We didn't give the Epire that much time. I'll have to remember with the last one.

I only have a couple of those special Closels and haven't tried one yet. I mean, they were outrageously priced on release.
 
I just popped a '97 Baumard Papillon. Tasted like bad, funky sherry -- I assume totally oxidized. Interesting to see a similar problem with the '96.
 
For those of you who were around at the time, did these funky sherry notes appear during the shutdown phase of previous vintages? I.E. do we have reason to believe that these wines are just shutdown and will eventually emerge on the other end?

Or is something new going on.
 
I have gone through a reasonable size stash of the 1997 d'pir. I went through a run of them that showed roughly like this, and then after that period of time they showed well again. Could I have run into a bunch of bad corks in the middle of the case, or was that just how the wine showed while shut down? I've had a similar experience with 2002 Closel Papillon, though that has been on a quicker trajectory, and my sample is not quite as large. Whatever the case, when I hit a bad one, it shows very, very poorly and does a fantastic immitation of oxidation, if in fact it is not the real deal.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
Why should a 1996 Baumard be oxidized? He certainly wasn't in a low-SO2 mode in those days, and it's a ripe but high acid vintage. Cooked somewhere in transit?
Click to expand...

I bought mine on release and have drank probably 3+ cases of the 1996, 1997 Papillon and 1997 Speciale.

Last time I tried any, I found the bottles to be not in good shape.

I don't know about oxidized, but I do know about storage which was good, and I do know they drank well for a good while, so cooked doesn't seem likely since it would have showed earlier. Corks were in good shape.

It's a mystery wrapped in an enigma.

Maybe it just doesn't age?
 
originally posted by VLM:
Maybe it just doesn't age?
Click to expand...

I don't know. I think they will come out the other side okay. And I always find something to like about the wines even when they are shut down tight. One more decade and we'll know for sure.

And why is it that when someone comes on the Internet and claims a wine is showing poorly I feel the need to open one and see for myself, yet when someone says a wine is drinking well I feel content to let mine sit and age some more?

Should be the other way around.

Best,
Kay
 
originally posted by Kay Bixler:
originally posted by VLM:
Maybe it just doesn't age?
Click to expand...

I don't know. I think they will come out the other side okay. And I always find something to like about the wines even when they are shut down tight. One more decade and we'll know for sure.

And why is it that when someone comes on the Internet and claims a wine is showing poorly I feel the need to open one and see for myself, yet when someone says a wine is drinking well I feel content to let mine sit and age some more?

Should be the other way around.

Best,
Kay
Click to expand...

You've got that bass-ackwards, or maybe you're just one of those noble truth-seekers.
 
originally posted by Kay Bixler:
originally posted by VLM:
Maybe it just doesn't age?
Click to expand...

I don't know. I think they will come out the other side okay. And I always find something to like about the wines even when they are shut down tight. One more decade and we'll know for sure.

And why is it that when someone comes on the Internet and claims a wine is showing poorly I feel the need to open one and see for myself, yet when someone says a wine is drinking well I feel content to let mine sit and age some more?

Should be the other way around.

Best,
Kay
Click to expand...

I had a Baumard-fit several months ago after opening up yet another '96, and then a '97, that were just not drinkable and then threw the last 4-5 bottles away (of course, after opening to make sure I should throw them away).

So, please, do not post a positive tasting note on the wines in 2018 even if they turn out to be ok.
 
originally posted by Bwood:
I had a Baumard-fit several months ago after opening up yet another '96, and then a '97, that were just not drinkable and then threw the last 4-5 bottles away (of course, after opening to make sure I should throw them away).
Click to expand...

Isn't that what Winebid.com is for?

Savennieres seems to be peculiar stuff. A friend recently gave me a bottle of 2001 Coulee de Serrant saying he really just doesn't like it. I hope to serve it to him blind in ten or 15 years and show him the error of his ways.

So, um, has anyone tasted the 2001 Coulee de Serrant?

Best,
Kay
 
I'll say again that our last few 96 B'd Pappillons tasted extremely weird at first, but after we got through half a glass or so, we found we liked it very much indeed. By the end of the bottle, I was raving about it, and the most recent bottle (about half a year ago) was the best. Maybe our bottles are different, maybe we're masochists, maybe our taste stinks, but we've found this to be pretty good wine, albeit way out of the box.
 
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