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- Thread starter Cliff
- Start date
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
I'll say again that our last few 96 B'd Pappillons tasted extremely weird at first, but after we got through half a glass or so, we found we liked it very much indeed. By the end of the bottle, I was raving about it, and the most recent bottle (about half a year ago) was the best. Maybe our bottles are different, maybe we're masochists, maybe our taste stinks, but we've found this to be pretty good wine, albeit way out of the box.
I worked on this bottle a bit at a time over three days now. Maybe they'll come around in the future, but not this bottle. Definitely oxidized, and not just a little. I guess it could have been cooked, too. There was a caramel note that was pretty dominant at first and gave way to a sherried oxidation, which was always there but grew over time and ultimately took over. As I say, there could have been something wrong with the cork. I didn't notice the blue/green business, and the fill was alright; but it could still have been a problem.
originally posted by Brad L i l j e q u i s t:
I have had a slew of oxidized de Fieuzal blanc (last weekend, a 93) and I have wondered if somehow magically they'd come around. It doesn't seem like they would.
Man, I seem to have a serious line on these bottles. I had one of those, too, though it's been awhile.
Kay Bixler
Kay Bixler
originally posted by Brad L i l j e q u i s t:
I have had a slew of oxidized de Fieuzal blanc (last weekend, a 93) and I have wondered if somehow magically they'd come around. It doesn't seem like they would.
I'll take any de Fieuzal Blanc you have lost faith in. Especially '94.
Willing to trade properly aged, sound and delicious Beaujolais, Muscadet.
Order now and receive a FREE bottle of 1997 Savennieres from Claude Papin!
Offer limited to the continental United States. Must be 21 or older to participate.
ACT NOW!
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
originally posted by Cliff:
I worked on this bottle a bit at a time over three days now. Maybe they'll come around in the future, but not this bottle. Definitely oxidized, and not just a little. I guess it could have been cooked, too. There was a caramel note that was pretty dominant at first and gave way to a sherried oxidation, which was always there but grew over time and ultimately took over. As I say, there could have been something wrong with the cork. I didn't notice the blue/green business, and the fill was alright; but it could still have been a problem.
Drat! Sorry for your misfortune.
It does suck, but, in the scheme of things, not so much.
Kay, I would do that trade in a second if I had any of the Fieuzal left. Interesting that you mention the 1997 Papin. I forgot about that one, but it went through some bizarre stages and then sorted itself out just fine a couple of years ago.
Kay, I would do that trade in a second if I had any of the Fieuzal left. Interesting that you mention the 1997 Papin. I forgot about that one, but it went through some bizarre stages and then sorted itself out just fine a couple of years ago.
Kay Bixler
Kay Bixler
originally posted by Cliff:
Interesting that you mention the 1997 Papin. I forgot about that one, but it went through some bizarre stages and then sorted itself out just fine a couple of years ago.
My bottles have not sorted themselves out.
originally posted by Kay Bixler:
So, um, has anyone tasted the 2001 Coulee de Serrant?
Yes
Kay Bixler
Kay Bixler
originally posted by Yixin:
Yes
Annnnnd . . . . ?
Ignacio Villalgordo
Ignacio Villalgordo
originally posted by Cliff:
I have gone through a reasonable size stash of the 1997 d'pir. I went through a run of them that showed roughly like this, and then after that period of time they showed well again. Could I have run into a bunch of bad corks in the middle of the case, or was that just how the wine showed while shut down? I've had a similar experience with 2002 Closel Papillon, though that has been on a quicker trajectory, and my sample is not quite as large. Whatever the case, when I hit a bad one, it shows very, very poorly and does a fantastic immitation of oxidation, if in fact it is not the real deal.
FWIW, I bought 12 bottles of the 2002 La Jalousie. Of the 3 bottles tasted, one of them was showing much more evolution (not oxidation) than the other 2, and even then, there were differences between these 2 bottles. As I have just purchased the stuff, it is not enough to draw any conclusions, as I do not know how it has been stored, but the bottle variation from the same case is, at least, worrysome
I don't have the fortune of having tasted anything older
Jeff Grossman
Jeff Grossman
I opened a 2005 Jalousie the other evening. It's alive and well, though rather muted. (Shut down?)
My half-cases of Baumard 96 Papillon and 97 Epire are inconvenient to get at (Several subways, plus just try to get them on the phone, sheesh) , so I guess we will have the chance to see whether they come around in another 10 years. For the time being I'm willing to chance it...
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
Don - how does the Epire do with time? Kermit always raves, but you would expect him to.
Ian,
We were there in 98 and M. Bizard opened an '82 then for us. At about age fifteen it was still rather fresh and seemed to have a future. I've got a couple-three vintages from the 90s socked away as experiments.
In the past I've associated a pine-like resin quality with the wines there, which differentiates it from the other estates.
A question I don't know the answer to yet is whether the riper lower acid vintages do less well down the road than vintages with more bracing acidity and moderate ripeness. Or perhaps the riper vintages are just more susceptible to transportation and storage gremlins - as might have been the case with Cliff's bottles?!
FWIW here's the note I took in 1998
"1982 Savennieres "Centennaire" - Pale yellow. Orange custard and creamy vanilla aromas, but lightly woven, not heavy. Flavor is fresh and vigorous, with a strong minerally component and a nougat-like counterpoint to the orange custard. Supple mouthfeel and quite vigorous acidity. Medium body. Long, developed finish. Needs time to mellow."
We were there in 98 and M. Bizard opened an '82 then for us. At about age fifteen it was still rather fresh and seemed to have a future. I've got a couple-three vintages from the 90s socked away as experiments.
In the past I've associated a pine-like resin quality with the wines there, which differentiates it from the other estates.
A question I don't know the answer to yet is whether the riper lower acid vintages do less well down the road than vintages with more bracing acidity and moderate ripeness. Or perhaps the riper vintages are just more susceptible to transportation and storage gremlins - as might have been the case with Cliff's bottles?!
FWIW here's the note I took in 1998
"1982 Savennieres "Centennaire" - Pale yellow. Orange custard and creamy vanilla aromas, but lightly woven, not heavy. Flavor is fresh and vigorous, with a strong minerally component and a nougat-like counterpoint to the orange custard. Supple mouthfeel and quite vigorous acidity. Medium body. Long, developed finish. Needs time to mellow."
Ian Fitzsimmons
Ian Fitzsimmons
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I like old chenin and pine resin; must find a way to get some of these for the laboratory.
originally posted by Don Rice:
Brad Kane has opened a couple of much older Epires in the past year.
Brad, was that a 1953 we had up at our place?
It may have seen better days, but not by much. It was still quite drinkable.
It was indeed the '53 we had and it was better than quite drinkable, imo. It was really good! It was, however, in a liquoreux style. I have a '49 laying around for another evening.