Typically perceptive and lucidly written

Great article.

I think the days of the 3x markup are over for higher-end wines. I saw a bottle of 90 La T“che on a list the other day for $11,000. I guess there are people out there that will buy that (Justin Bieber if it comes with a lap dance!).
 
An interesting article. Because so much of what it says applies to me, I find it intuitively correct. But I don't like to judge that way and among the people with which I drink, I am generally now among the oldest and, because I remember different pricing, the most penny-pinching. I don't know if one can generalize from the practices of people my age as much as this article does. But Levi certainly has more exposure to a broader range of what's going on than I do.
 
originally posted by Levi Dalton:
Thank you for reading and for the good word.
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I liked it too, it's an interesting and very plausible hypothesis based on some other data I've been looking at. Do you have any numbers on frequency of BYOB and sales of ultra-high end wines or is this based on your observations and talking with other sommeliers?

Christian
 
Interesting stuff.

There is a tension in the piece between coastal fine dining and the national demographics emphasized by SVB, which may be imperfectly correlated. I'm not sure how the age and wealth demographic of Manhattan and Brooklyn looks in recent years compared to the national aging of the boomer cohort, of which I am only all too aware.

But where are the cool BYO-friendly places? My most frequent BYO spots are more neighborhood than staff curiosity (the guys at PDH aren't there for the old Burgs). I don't attempt it much around town.

Speaking of bargain lists, the current version at all'onda is quite remarkable. There is a lot to explore there.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:

But where are the cool BYO-friendly places? My most frequent BYO spots are more neighborhood than staff curiosity (the guys at PDH aren't there for the old Burgs). I don't attempt it much around town.
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winedisorder.com
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
Interesting stuff.

There is a tension in the piece between coastal fine dining and the national demographics emphasized by SVB, which may be imperfectly correlated. I'm not sure how the age and wealth demographic of Manhattan and Brooklyn looks in recent years compared to the national aging of the boomer cohort, of which I am only all too aware.

But where are the cool BYO-friendly places? My most frequent BYO spots are more neighborhood than staff curiosity (the guys at PDH aren't there for the old Burgs). I don't attempt it much around town.

Speaking of bargain lists, the current version at all'onda is quite remarkable. There is a lot to explore there.
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I think corkage is really what is important for me. There are a number of good restaurants that allow corkage and I am more than happy to pay $30 if I want to drink a really nice bottle. I am also equally happy to buy from Patrick's or Pascaline's list with many wines at 1-1.5x retail and many of hard to find gems.
 
originally posted by Robert Dentice:
There are a number of good restaurants that allow corkage and I am more than happy to pay $30 if I want to drink a really nice bottle. I am also equally happy to buy from Patrick's or Pascaline's list with many wines at 1-1.5x retail and many of hard to find gems.
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Absolutely, on both counts.
 
Funny corkage story Renee went to dinner with a friend in LA to one of the more hot "foodie" places. One where we have been to several times and ordered many wines. She wanted to drink a nice white burgundy (they had none on the list) which she thought would be a great match with the food. They instituted a $50 corkage policy on Fridays and Saturdays. Not really a big deal but they had at least 15 wines on the list below $50!
 
The restaurants I have always been most interested in are those that price their wines at or fairly near (and sometimes even below) retail then make their money off of their food.

These particular restaurants enjoy great customer loyalty that keeps their premises full or nearly full of enthusiastic patrons of all ages.

Consistent with Levi's thesis, restaurants such as this used to be few and far between, but are much more common (if not commonplace) now.

. . . . . Pete
 
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

The restaurants I have always been most interested in are those that price their wines at or fairly near (and sometimes even below) retail then make their money off of their food.

These particular restaurants enjoy great customer loyalty that keeps their premises full or nearly full of enthusiastic patrons of all ages.

Consistent with Levi's thesis, restaurants such as this used to be few and far between, but are much more common (if not commonplace) now.

. . . . . Pete
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can i assume that restaurants that "price their wines at or fairly near (and sometimes even below) retail" are found almost exclusively outside of nyc?
 
originally posted by scottreiner:
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

The restaurants I have always been most interested in are those that price their wines at or fairly near (and sometimes even below) retail then make their money off of their food.

These particular restaurants enjoy great customer loyalty that keeps their premises full or nearly full of enthusiastic patrons of all ages.

Consistent with Levi's thesis, restaurants such as this used to be few and far between, but are much more common (if not commonplace) now.

. . . . . Pete
Click to expand...

can i assume that restaurants that "price their wines at or fairly near (and sometimes even below) retail" are found almost exclusively outside of nyc?
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considering the overhead, it can't be done in the SF bay area either. Not if you want to use decent ingredients in the kitchen.
 
originally posted by scottreiner:
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

The restaurants I have always been most interested in are those that price their wines at or fairly near (and sometimes even below) retail then make their money off of their food.

These particular restaurants enjoy great customer loyalty that keeps their premises full or nearly full of enthusiastic patrons of all ages.

Consistent with Levi's thesis, restaurants such as this used to be few and far between, but are much more common (if not commonplace) now.

. . . . . Pete
Click to expand...

can i assume that restaurants that "price their wines at or fairly near (and sometimes even below) retail" are found almost exclusively outside of nyc?
Click to expand...

Not a practice I'm aware of in DC either. Dino's sometimes comes close but only close.
 
We could mention Landmarc, which has close-to-retail pricing on what is unfortunately not a very interesting selection of wines. And a fair $25 corkage fee.
 
just want to point out the original post, like a good old english tale, has a double plot

how about that '12 "g" , eh ?
 
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