Bernard Gripa St. Joseph 'Le Berceau' 2005

S

SFJoe

Joe Dougherty
I feel a bit Rimmermanned by this wine, bought on the strength of a RWC mailer. I didn't go long, not knowing the producer, but I bought a handful, and I have to express a bit of disappointment. The headline on the mailer was "St. Joseph Classicism," and I don't know who your classics were, but this wine is a bit on the stylish, glossy side for me after two bottles, six weeks apart. RWC tries to pitch him in with Gonon and Chave, whatevs, but this doesn't thrill me and I am still getting what tastes like oak after nine years.

I used to have more faith in the RWC than in many merchants, I haz a sad.
 
Perhaps they meant Jean-Francois Gonon of the Maconnais, and post-2003 Chave.

I, too, rarely buy on the strength of a mailer, and I, too, recently was Rimmermaned by a RWC mailer, in my case for the Champagnes of Ruppert-Leroy. They have not yet arrived, so I hope my results are better.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
Bernard Gripa St. Joseph 'Le Berceau' 2005I feel a bit Rimmermaned by this wine, bought on the strength of a RWC mailer. I didn't go long, not knowing the producer, but I bought a handful, and I have to express a bit of disappointment. The headline on the mailer was "St. Joseph Classicism," and I don't know who your classics were, but this wine is a bit on the stylish, glossy side for me after two bottles, six weeks apart. RWC tries to pitch him in with Gonon and Chave, whatevs, but this doesn't thrill me and I am still getting what tastes like oak after nine years.

I used to have more faith in the RWC than in many merchants, I haz a sad.
Click to expand...

I agree with your assessment. I picked up a couple bottles six months or so and popped one soon thereafter -- it seemed young, with a polished texture marked by oak, and stylish as you say. I did not at all get any impression that would have me link the wine with the Gonons or Chaves of the world. The 2005 Berceau is the only Gripa wine I have ever tried; I'd like to give Gripa's basic St. Joseph a go some time.

Btw, Lyle recently offered the 2011s of both the regular and Berceau wines.
 
speaking of disappointments, what did you make of that 2010 Yvonne Saumur I forced on you ( which was also gently forced on me by a trusted retailer ) ?
Seemed a little too clean to me, unless my expectations of dirt in Saumur are unreasonable due to one winemaker
 
I think your problem may be more with the vintage than with the producer.

Gripa is a very good producer -- not at the level of Gonon and Faurie for the classic St-Joseph area, but only a step down. The vines extremely well-placed, the production straightforward and nonmanipulative.

However, Americanized palates badly misjudged the 2005 vintage in the Northern Rhône. (Not saying that RWC necessarily is Americanized palate -- I don't know theirs, but certain journalists were too enthusiastic, and not just the usual suspect.) To a large extent, the grapes were too ripe -- not so much as to make the wines bad, just not as good as they could have been and were in other vintages (and of course, there were always exceptions both ways).
 
Try some Etienne Becheras St-Joseph. I had some today for the first time. Old-school heaven, tannin and earth, just alive and lovely.
 
originally posted by scottreiner:
Try some Etienne Becheras St-Joseph. I had some today for the first time. Old-school heaven, tannin and earth, just alive and lovely.
Click to expand...

I've not yet had his St-Jo, but excellent Crozes.
 
Claude, did the french winemaking palate misjudge the 2005 vintage as well, given multiple descriptions of oakiness here?
 
originally posted by .sasha:
Claude, did the french winemaking palate misjudge the 2005 vintage as well, given multiple descriptions of oakiness here?
Click to expand...

Notes from my visit to the estate in spring 2007, at which time I tasted the wine from bottle, do not indicate any new oak (which does not exclude a possible occasional new cask here and there, although since some new oak is used on the whites, I rather doubt it for the reds). My notes also include discussion of winemaking regime, which, too, did not include any new oak for the reds. I double checked in Livignstone-Learmonth and Norman, and they, too, do not mention new oak for the red (the white is a different matter -- up to 20% new oak, which is fairly moderate for whites and they can take it, IMO). I see that I was actually rather high on the wine (although I preferred the 2006s, as was generally the case in the region) -- maybe the wine just needs more time.

As I have often pointed out, many tasters claim to pick up new oak in Northern Rhônes in instances where there is none (in some cases, even where there is no oak, period). There seems to be an element of Syrah that many tasters confuse with new oak. The grapes are not fully de-stemmed at Gripa, so that may be it.
 
I went through a couple of bottles of the 2004 regular St Joseph about 4-5 years after vintage. It was confusing: one was delicious; the other, very foursquare with riper fruit and showing what appeared to be oak. Have wondered about the wines occasionally since, most recently when Lyle offered them.
 
originally posted by Claude Kolm:
originally posted by .sasha:
Claude, did the french winemaking palate misjudge the 2005 vintage as well, given multiple descriptions of oakiness here?
Click to expand...

Notes from my visit to the estate in spring 2007, at which time I tasted the wine from bottle, do not indicate any new oak (which does not exclude a possible occasional new cask here and there, although since some new oak is used on the whites, I rather doubt it for the reds). My notes also include discussion of winemaking regime, which, too, did not include any new oak for the reds. I double checked in Livignstone-Learmonth and Norman, and they, too, do not mention new oak for the red (the white is a different matter -- up to 20% new oak, which is fairly moderate for whites and they can take it, IMO). I see that I was actually rather high on the wine (although I preferred the 2006s, as was generally the case in the region) -- maybe the wine just needs more time.

As I have often pointed out, many tasters claim to pick up new oak in Northern Rhônes in instances where there is none (in some cases, even where there is no oak, period). There seems to be an element of Syrah that many tasters confuse with new oak. The grapes are not fully de-stemmed at Gripa, so that may be it.
Click to expand...

I see the same thing with some of the uber Beaujolais cuvees like the Lapierre Romaine.
 
originally posted by Michael Lewis:
Perhaps they meant Jean-Francois Gonon of the Maconnais, and post-2003 Chave.

I, too, rarely buy on the strength of a mailer, and I, too, recently was Rimmermaned by a RWC mailer, in my case for the Champagnes of Ruppert-Leroy. They have not yet arrived, so I hope my results are better.
Click to expand...

You will not be disappointed by the Ruppert Leroy. They are spectacular. But don't tell anyone!
 
originally posted by .sasha:
speaking of disappointments, what did you make of that 2010 Yvonne Saumur I forced on you ( which was also gently forced on me by a trusted retailer ) ?
Seemed a little too clean to me, unless my expectations of dirt in Saumur are unreasonable due to one winemaker
Click to expand...

I have a bunch of 2005 (white) and the last bottle I opened was great. Very Burgundian in style but a beautiful balance and depth. Never had the red.
 
I have really and truly enjoyed some B. Gripa St. Joseph Rouge in the past, and have memories of some pretty decent Marsanne from the same source. If I recall correctly, it was the 2006 Rouge that was a regular recommemdation from me during the Sud days. We sold tons. I have not had the Berceau.
 
In the Northern Rhone, I buy from oak friendly winemakers only in very high acid low alcohol years. Gangloff's or Ogier's 08s are nice wines.
 
originally posted by Brézème:
oak friendly winemakers only in very high acid low alcohol years.
Click to expand...

Thank you, Eric.

That was my point, Claude - an underestimation of acidity by winemakers in 2005 ( although your point about the specific domaine not using much new oak well taken ). But even the best of them were in unfamiliar territory with the global warming, no?
 
I don't understand your point, .sasha. In my experience, it was 1997 that convinced producers of the existence of global warming (and that riper was not always better), not 2005. But either way, I fail to see your connection of 2005 to Brézème's comment, which has to do with new oak. As I indicated above, my notes and the comments of Norman and Livingstone-Learmonth do not indicate that there is ANY new oak on the Gripa's reds.

I was too tired last night to think to include: I believe it is often reduction that many people call "oak" in Syrah-based wines when there is no (or little) oak on the wine. Sometimes with Pinot Noir, too.
 
Contemporaneous JLL reports 15-20% new wood as typical of the reds (Wines of the Northern Rhone, 2005).

I wonder if there might have been more for the fancy cuvee in '05?
 
This is not the first time, or the first person who has perceived new oak flavor in this wine. A quick check of the archives shows that this particular bottling and vintage has been "flagged" at least twice in the past by two different people other than the current source. Each time, it's been explained as something that isn't new oak tasting like new oak.

The general premise that something else can masquerade as oak in a Northern Rhone syrah is certainly plausible - but the fact that this particular wine keeps coming up in this context seems a bit beyond coincidental.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top