Oh. Lordy

S

SFJoe

Joe Dougherty
I really hate posting this in obvious violation of the FAQ, and if the Politburo should in its collective wisdom choose to smite me I shall yield without objection.

But these latest facts are so close to the founding myth of Wine disorder, and before that, Wine therapy, and before that, the WLDG, and before that, many ancestral wine discussion groups that it seems impossible to ignore, much that we really should prefer that outcome.

There was a time in this life of wine of ours, when the venerated Doghead posted to an earlier version of the webz, about certain wines. In that time, the Myrmidons of the sinister RP (may the Politburo forgive my lapse into discussion of these matters, though they are only given to understand the context) threatened the Doghead with litigation to penury, whatever the merits.

At the time, I urged the Doghead to establish a legal defense fund, but he feared penury from the litigation and recanted despite his sincerely held beliefs.

But the Wine Advocate has set their dogs, er, allowed their attorneys to be such egregious assholes, er should I say, encouraged everyone to consider them to be such thin-skinned ridiculous monkeys that it surpasseth all understanding?

Why should they want to make everyone who has an Internet connection to think of them so poorly?

Why should they want to start every argument they have so deep in a hole of opprobrium?

May the Politburo forgive me, I have spent so much unrecoverable thought on the subject of ludicrous wine critics and their tame lawyers.
 
Speaking as a former dog, there is a difference between the law and the law suit, a good bit of which is money. One is wise to remember that and to deal with what is and not with what should be.

OTOH, it's fermented grape juice, for god's sake.
And Monktown ain't Mecca.

Best, Jim
 
It's dollars and cents. Or dollars and nonsense.

Interesting to learn that this venerable community grew from early roots sunk in the WLDG.
 
I pity the young associate at this law firm that spends days and nights hunting down snippets of the eWHAT website. At least they will have a semi-decent wine culture at the end of this task.

Moreover I am wondering if they are doing the same for pro eWHAT website (there is gotta be someone somewhere writing something positive about him or maybe it is just like life in the universe)
 
In doghead's case, he was being threatened with a libel charge. Those are always hard to make stick so he was really just being threatened with having to spend a bundle to defend himself.

Here, the threatened charge is copyright infringement. American copyright law was designed to offer heavy protection for intellectual property (if one can call Mickey Mouse intellectual property, I suppose even Parker blather fits) and has little concern with protecting the circulation of ideas. I suppose in this case one could mount a fair use defense, but it would be chancy since even sampling is no longer protected.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:
In doghead's case, he was being threatened with a libel charge. Those are always hard to make stick so he was really just being threatened with having to spend a bundle to defend himself.
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Yes.

I always thought the threat was quite empty--would RP really want a series of headlines where the factual question being examined was whether he actually tasted the wines he reviewed? It seemed unlikely to me, but it wasn't my life.
 
originally posted by Jonathan Loesberg:

American copyright law was designed to offer heavy protection for intellectual property...
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I'd amend this to "American copyright law has been continually redesigned to offer increasing protection to intellectual property owners."

I suppose in this case one could mount a fair use defense, but it would be chancy since even sampling is no longer protected.
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I don't know how extensive the quotations in the original blog post were, but there is still some hope for fair use exceptions. Within the last month, Lawrence Lessig won a lawsuit over his use of a song, which was included as an example in one of his lectures that was posted on youtube.
 
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
It's dollars and cents. Or dollars and nonsense.

Interesting to learn that this venerable community grew from early roots sunk in the WLDG.
Click to expand...

Someone should write the natural history.
 
I find it interesting that David White apparently did not get a takedown demand, perhaps in part because LPB chastised him in the comments for not posting her notes in full. My armchair analysis is that there is a strong argument that the quotes at Dr. Vino represent fair use, as the purpose was clearly commentary and criticism, they represent a minuscule portion of the eRP published works, and the primary manner in which the publication of the quotes could devalue eRP's IP would be by subjecting the original authors to ridicule for the substance of their statements, as opposed to supplanting eRP in the market as the source for wine commentary by RP, LPB, or Dunnuck.

But I don't claim to be an expert in fair use analysis and I'm not the one who would have to pay the legal fees to defend against the eRP takedown demand, so I can't blame those who complied with it. I'd love to see an IP litigator or an organization like EFF or Public Citizen take on the defense pro bono, though, as I believe that eRP's takedown demands were motivated much more by a desire to silence criticism through legal bullying than to protect the value of its IP.
 
It's pretty disturbing to see a self-proclaimed journalist use a SLAPP in order to silence another journalist.

I guess to him the First Amendment only applies to tasting notes.
 
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
It's dollars and cents. Or dollars and nonsense.

Interesting to learn that this venerable community grew from early roots sunk in the WLDG.
Click to expand...

Someone should write the natural history.
Click to expand...

A short history of the origins of some of the web fora:

Prodigy --> Squires (Mark ran the Prodigy board when it folded)

Compuserve --> WLDG (Robin was a moderator of the CIS board before starting WLDG)

WLDG --> Joao Kansas --> Basement --> Wine Therapy --> Wine Disorder

Squires --> Wine Berserkers

I don't know what the origin of Brad Harrington's WCW forum was, since it was up and running before I found it. I recognized some of the posters from AOL, but I'm not sure there was any link.

And this summary misses a lot of nuance. For example, many Prodigy people went to WLDG as well as (or instead of) to Squires board, many Compuserve people never went to WLDG, many significant posters at each place were never on the Prodigy or Compuserve forums, and the Therapy progression probably isn't as linear as I've depicted it (and others here have more familiarity with that progression than I do, so I bow to their superior knowledge). But I think I've summarized the history fairly accurately.
 
originally posted by Mike Evans:
originally posted by VLM:
originally posted by Ian Fitzsimmons:
It's dollars and cents. Or dollars and nonsense.

Interesting to learn that this venerable community grew from early roots sunk in the WLDG.
Click to expand...

Someone should write the natural history.
Click to expand...

A short history of the origins of some of the web fora:

Prodigy --> Squires (Mark ran the Prodigy board when it folded)

Compuserve --> WLDG (Robin was a moderator of the CIS board before starting WLDG)

WLDG --> Joao Kansas --> Basement --> Wine Therapy --> Wine Disorder

Squires --> Wine Berserkers

I don't know what the origin of Brad Harrington's WCW forum was, since it was up and running before I found it. I recognized some of the posters from AOL, but I'm not sure there was any link.

And this summary misses a lot of nuance. For example, many Prodigy people went to WLDG as well as (or instead of) to Squires board, many Compuserve people never went to WLDG, many significant posters at each place were never on the Prodigy or Compuserve forums, and the Therapy progression probably isn't as linear as I've depicted it (and others here have more familiarity with that progression than I do, so I bow to their superior knowledge). But I think I've summarized the history fairly accurately.
Click to expand...

That sums it up, but it should read Prodigy-Squires', Wine Berserkers, as the Squires'/Parker board was gutted when Parker made it a pay site and Wine Berserkers was born from the former members.

Also, a few folks like me started on the AOL wine boards and alt.food.wine before migrating over to the WLDG and Squires'.
 
There was a detour into the Wine Asylum before Wine therapy.

Many of us were on alt.food.wine, and a few still are.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
wtf is Joao Kansas? What an unlikely juxtaposition.
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A Coad piece that had a ton of responses from many characters, real and created, that eventually led Robin to create "The Basement" on the WLDG, basically a thread at the bottom of the board where the NY crew and their cohorts could have some fun at Tom Troiano's expense. Closing of the basement and Robin's turning on Dressner and the NY group in general, caused a flight from the WLDG Callahan's newly created Wine Therapy after a quick pit stop on Wine Asylum and a blueberry board.

Here's Coad's original piece: IN WHICH JOAO DISCOVERS HE'S NOT IN KANSAS ANYMORE.
 
originally posted by SFJoe:
There was a detour into the Wine Asylum before Wine therapy.

Many of us were on alt.food.wine, and a few still are.
Click to expand...

Oh, yeah. Wine Asylum, and let's not forget the blueberry board Kay discovered.
 
Mike, in your very nice rendering of the taxonomic relationships of the various wine boreds, you forgot to include the brief stopover at Wine Asylum in the phylogenetic tree of WD.

Mark Lipton
 
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