Noshing in Style!

What?!?

Surely this is like what you serve at home every night.

I was good, I skipped the crudo...and a couple of other morsels!

. . . . . Pete
 
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

originally posted by Lou Kessler: I'm a little surprised by the inclusion of the 82 Latour, not really representative of the 82 vintage.
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Lou, Interesting!

I assume yours is an allusion to the folks who are critical of the '82 vintage. Certainly, this controversy has had a long life.

I'm not as widely knowledgeable as a lot of the people who have opinions on the '82 Clarets; however, I can say that my experiences have been way more favorable than the converse.

I assume you are saying the Latour is better than other '82s. As just one example, I had the Latour a while back along with the Ducru and found the Ducru to be the champion on that occasion.

My experience is that the '82 Clarets have outperformed the predictions of most of the naysayers.

Just my $.02 worth!

. . . . . Pete
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No, my comment was not meant to disparage the quality of the 82 vintage but to point out that Latour was not up to the standards of a first growth in 82. Margaux was even of lesser quality. There were many 82s that were of higher quality than the two firsts I mentioned.
I remember bringing two bottles of 82 La Conseillante to a dinner at SF Joe's in 1999 or 2000 where the group raved about the quality of the Bordeaux indicated. Trying to remember the denizens present that evening SF Joe, Chris Coad, Joe Dressner, Brad Kane, Sasha, ? I was fortunate to have bought a few cases of mixed 82s, a purchase that turned out well.
 
Lou, Thanks! Interesting, as the plot thickens.

I have never heard anything but rave reviews about Latour '82 and that it was among the best of the vintage (as is usually the case with most any vintage). Current Latour '82 prices that I've seen (near $2,000/bottle) lend credence to its quality as perceived by many.

I have always felt the Margaux '83 was better than the '82 but this was not a knock on the '82 but rather an accolade on the '83.

None of the foregoing is intended to be judgemental as to who might or might not be the most correct. All palates vary.

. . . . Pete
 
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

Lou, Thanks! Interesting, as the plot thickens.

I have never heard anything but rave reviews about Latour '82 and that it was among the best of the vintage (as is usually the case with most any vintage). Current Latour '82 prices that I've seen (near $2,000/bottle) lend credence to its quality as perceived by many.

I have always felt the Margaux '83 was better than the '82 but this was not a knock on the '82 but rather an accolade on the '83.

None of the foregoing is intended to be judgemental as to who might or might not be the most correct. All palates vary.

. . . . Pete
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I've tasted many of the 82s on more than one occasion and my fav among the first growths has been Mouton. I personally have put the Leoville Las C, and the Pichon LaLande right up there with the first growths IMHO. The oddball was the Chevalier which had a chemical problem and after a few years in the bottle most were not drinkable.
 
'82 LLC Lou? Now now, there is no reason you need to use those very fine local products as the role model :-)

Pete got it right with the Ducru.
 
originally posted by .sasha:
'82 LLC Lou? Now now, there is no reason you need to use those very fine local products as the role model :-)

Pete got it right with the Ducru.
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I split a case of the Ducru with a friend, and still have a bottle or two left. The other four have been a bitter disappointment and my friend has observed the same results with his half of the case. No great vintages just great bottles. The Ducru has not been tainted there is just no there, there. Quien sabe?
 
originally posted by Lou Kessler:
Who knows?
originally posted by .sasha:
'82 LLC Lou? Now now, there is no reason you need to use those very fine local products as the role model :-)

Pete got it right with the Ducru.
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I split a case of the Ducru with a friend, and still have a bottle or two left. The other four have been a bitter disappointment and my friend has observed the same results with his half of the case. No great vintages just great bottles. The Ducru has not been tainted there is just no there, there. Quien sabe?
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I also split a case of '82 Ducru with a friend ($150 back then - seemed like a lot of dosh to me then too) and all were quite good. Last time i had it (july 2006), it was paired with the 82 pichon lande and cos d'estournel - and i preferred the ducru.

I remember saying to my host, who was marveling over how beautiful each of the bordeaux were, "yeah, but compared to Burgundy, they are simple." He was appalled but it was true.
 
The two '82 La Conseillante that Lou brought to SJoe's back in the day, showed beautifully. That said, Lou, I do think you're barking up the wrong tree poo pooing the '82 Latour and Margaux. Imo, they're both top tier wines and among the greatest of the vintage. No way would I put the LLC in that class as I've never had one that has remotely lived up to the hype. The PLL is terrific, but, to my tastes, doesn't reach the heights of the Latour or Margaux and the '82 Ducru is not as good as the PLL. Frankly, the only wine I've had from '82 that I'd consistently put ahead of the Latour and Margaux is the La Mission. The '82 La Tour Haut Brion is also stellar.
 
Tasted through the full lineup of the 82s two years ago and my favorite was the Cos, the only one that showed somewhat Burgundian. Some, like the LLC and the Margaux, showed a hint of the jamminess to come. The La Mission was indeed wonderful.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Tasted through the full lineup of the 82s two years ago and my favorite was the Cos, the only one that showed somewhat Burgundian.
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ah yes, the wonders of large tastings.
That streak of uneven ripeness managed to steer you into dream land of some of your favourite wines from elsewhere, laced with delicate yet obligatory herbaceousness.
Happens to the best of us, comrade.
 
originally posted by Oswaldo Costa:
Tasted through the full lineup of the 82s two years ago and my favorite was the Cos, the only one that showed somewhat Burgundian.
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Not to be persnickity, but you say that like that's a problem. You want to drink Burgundy, drink Burgundy. Seems rather silly to complain about Bordeaux not being like Burgundy, imo.
 
It is indeed a problem that Bordeaux is not more like Burgundy. Prices would come down if we had more places from which to source fine Burgundy.
 
originally posted by Brad Kane: Seems rather silly to complain about Bordeaux not being like Burgundy
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Brad, If not heretic (even as I confess to being a most avid Burgundy fan)!

. . . . . Pete
 
originally posted by Lou Kessler:
Clarification
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

originally posted by Lou Kessler: I'm a little surprised by the inclusion of the 82 Latour, not really representative of the 82 vintage.
Click to expand...

Lou, Interesting!

I assume yours is an allusion to the folks who are critical of the '82 vintage. Certainly, this controversy has had a long life.

I'm not as widely knowledgeable as a lot of the people who have opinions on the '82 Clarets; however, I can say that my experiences have been way more favorable than the converse.

I assume you are saying the Latour is better than other '82s. As just one example, I had the Latour a while back along with the Ducru and found the Ducru to be the champion on that occasion.

My experience is that the '82 Clarets have outperformed the predictions of most of the naysayers.

Just my $.02 worth!

. . . . . Pete
Click to expand...
No, my comment was not meant to disparage the quality of the 82 vintage but to point out that Latour was not up to the standards of a first growth in 82. Margaux was even of lesser quality. There were many 82s that were of higher quality than the two firsts I mentioned.
I remember bringing two bottles of 82 La Conseillante to a dinner at SF Joe's in 1999 or 2000 where the group raved about the quality of the Bordeaux indicated. Trying to remember the denizens present that evening SF Joe, Chris Coad, Joe Dressner, Brad Kane, Sasha, ? I was fortunate to have bought a few cases of mixed 82s, a purchase that turned out well.
Click to expand...
still got a couple of the 82 consiellante I got at auction a few years ago...all but one of the 4 (out of 6) bottles have been excellent...
sold a 82 Latour
 
Speaking of '82s, especially first growths, John Kapon had a long vertical of Chateau Mouton Rothschild and had this to say about the '82...

We descended from the peak of that last flight to one of the peaks of the weekend, the 1982 Mouton Rothschild. Tom hailed it as one of my favorite wines ever, and I saw the 1959 resurrected here. Balanced aromas of chocolate folded into intense depth in the mouth, with a chocolaty and creamy intensity to match. Its full finish came across youthfully, with lots of length and spice along with a touch of peanut. This was an all-star amongst all the major leaguers (98).
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. . . . . Pete
 
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

Speaking of '82s, especially first growths, John Kapon had a long vertical of Chateau Mouton Rothschild and had this to say about the '82...
We descended from the peak of that last flight to one of the peaks of the weekend, the 1982 Mouton Rothschild. Tom hailed it as one of my favorite wines ever, and I saw the 1959 resurrected here. Balanced aromas of chocolate folded into intense depth in the mouth, with a chocolaty and creamy intensity to match. Its full finish came across youthfully, with lots of length and spice along with a touch of peanut. This was an all-star amongst all the major leaguers (98).
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But who knows what he was drinking. Could have been Cotes de Buzet with a little tincture of iodine and a skoosh of Corbieres.
 
originally posted by Jeff Grossman:
originally posted by Peter Creasey:

Speaking of '82s, especially first growths, John Kapon had a long vertical of Chateau Mouton Rothschild and had this to say about the '82...
We descended from the peak of that last flight to one of the peaks of the weekend, the 1982 Mouton Rothschild. Tom hailed it as one of my favorite wines ever, and I saw the 1959 resurrected here. Balanced aromas of chocolate folded into intense depth in the mouth, with a chocolaty and creamy intensity to match. Its full finish came across youthfully, with lots of length and spice along with a touch of peanut. This was an all-star amongst all the major leaguers (98).
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
But who knows what he was drinking. Could have been Cotes de Buzet with a little tincture of iodine and a skoosh of Corbieres.
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I'll send you the spam email record of the whole thing. Maybe you can figure out a way to link it for all. Pretty classic stuff. It's as if no one is going to jail.
 
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